Censorship

[Ray]

There's something very odd happening on this site. I know that sometimes certain threads degenerate into 'ad hominem' attacks and are closed for further comments by the moderators.

But I've never seen a whole thread completely deleted. This appears to have now happened with a particular thread on the Coffee Corner, named 'The Debate'. It's disappeared. That's very disturbing.

I'm opposed to censorship. I'll have to consider my future on this site.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

There's something very odd happening on this site. I know that sometimes certain threads degenerate into 'ad hominem' attacks and are closed for further comments by the moderators.

But I've never seen a whole thread completely deleted. This appears to have now happened with a particular thread on the Coffee Corner, named 'The Debate'. It's disappeared. That's very disturbing.

I'm opposed to censorship. I'll have to consider my future on this site.

This thread was so sick and crappy from the beginning, I don't miss it, but if it really was deleted or moved away I'd wish to have a short explanation or remark about the fact instead in the Coffee Corner.
Cheers
~Chris

EDIT: The moderators could move such threads into a hidden subforum called "Trash", so the forum software would automagically leave a remark about the movement of the thread, but the subforum would not be accessible and everyone would know what happened.

[Ray]

There are many issues that certain people might erroneously think are are sick and crappy, but from my reading of that thread there were no comments that were abusive to any individual.

It's a sad state of affairs when people cannot engage in a healthy debate because someone might think it a bit disturbing to their conventional views.

[stamper]

The author of the topic deleted it. It is something that an author can do if he feels that the topic has gone off topic. He started the post with the reference to religion which was a personal belief that many weren't happy about. You posted an image of a transgender that  - imo - had nothing to do with the original post. I made a point of showing the rules about naked persons not being allowed which you cheerfully ignored. I didn't report it to the moderator but it quickly disappeared and I thought you had actually been banned because I didn't see any of your posts from then till now. An author deleting a topic is controversial but I understand it if it has strayed far - which happens frequently ( I won't mention names) - and he wasn't happy. The moderator in this instance didn't censor the topic, the author did.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

....The moderator in this instance didn't censor the topic, the author did.

Well ... if it is so that speaks for itself, I think.
Seems things need much less moderation than feared.
Cheers
~Chris

EDIT: Just to be honest: IMO this idea of modern Creationism is so much beyond anything I'd consider sane thinking, that I could only imagine to discuss it from a Metaperspective, but not as a matter worth discussing itself. I admit: I'm indeed not that tolerant to "discuss" or "debate" everything despite its insanity ratio. That's why I early dropped out of that thread and really totally do not miss it. Not the slightest bit despite the fact there have been some well behaved and straight to the point quality postings in it.

[Christopher Sanderson]

The moderators could move such threads into a hidden subforum called "Trash", so the forum software would automagically leave a remark about the movement of the thread, but the subforum would not be accessible and everyone would know what happened.

That is exactly what happens but there is no notification left in place.

We can see the deleted thread in the trash.

We can also re-instate it or not.

Perhaps the OP could comment?

Chris

[Ray]

The author of the topic deleted it. It is something that an author can do if he feels that the topic has gone off topic. He started the post with the reference to religion which was a personal belief that many weren't happy about. You posted an image of a transgender that  - imo - had nothing to do with the original post. I made a point of showing the rules about naked persons not being allowed which you cheerfully ignored. I didn't report it to the moderator but it quickly disappeared and I thought you had actually been banned because I didn't see any of your posts from then till now. An author deleting a topic is controversial but I understand it if it has strayed far - which happens frequently ( I won't mention names) - and he wasn't happy. The moderator in this instance didn't censor the topic, the author did.

Okay! Now I understand, at least partially. We all have the right to delete any topic we started.

That in my opinion is the ultimate form of censorship. You start a discussion, and it doesn't go the way you anticipated, so you delete the entire thread.

I can't imagine myself ever doing that, and I can't imagine what sort of person who started a thread would do that. It's plain censorship.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

That is exactly what happens but there is no notification left in place.

We can see the deleted thread in the trash.

We can also re-instate it or not.

Perhaps the OP could comment?

Chris

Great to see you can save us from authoritarian self censorship by OPs.
<sarcasm> Maybe we can get a subforum "oddities" as an exhibition for funny threads? </sarcasm>
Cheers
~Chris

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Okay! Now I understand, at least partially. We all have the right to delete any topic we started.

That in my opinion is the ultimate form of censorship. You start a discussion, and it doesn't go the way you anticipated, so you delete the entire thread.

I can't imagine myself ever doing that, and I can't imagine what sort of person who started a thread would do that. It's plain censorship.

Yup !
Ray - and this is the really sad state of affairs concerning this kind of "debates" ....
Its good you remarked it and pointed it out here in this forum.
I could hardly believe the moderators would have censored us without remark or explanation, but like you I didn't understand how it worked.
Cheers
~Chris

[stamper]

An author can also lock a topic. A while back an author locked a topic in order to get the "last word" in a debate and the previous poster wasn't too happy. He started another topic about the locking  - just as you did Ray- but I don't remember the outcome.

[stamper]

Quote Ray

That in my opinion is the ultimate form of censorship. You start a discussion, and it doesn't go the way you anticipated, so you delete the entire thread.
 
Unquote

If someone was giving you a hard time and you didn't want to reply in a way that would get you barred - the person was trolling - then a locking or deletion could be helpful?

[Ray]

Yup !
Ray - and this is the really sad state of affairs concerning this kind of "debates" ....
Its good you remarked it and pointed it out here in this forum.
I could hardly believe the moderators would have censored us without remark or explanation, but like you I didn't understand how it worked.
Cheers
~Chris

The issue here is that contributors to this site spend their time and creative effort to express an opinion in response to a particular topic, and don't expect their opinion to be deleted at the whim of the originator of the topic. That's crazy! Who devised such a system?

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

The issue here is that contributors to this site spend their time and creative effort to express an opinion in response to a particular topic, and don't expect their opinion to be deleted at the whim of the originator of the topic. That's crazy! Who devised such a system?

If you want the thread back (since it still is alive in its grave) you could start a petition to the moderators with the reasons you stated and maybe enough people would support that.
My vote you'd have, though I distasted the thread.
Cheers
~Chris

[Ray]

If you want the thread back (since it still is alive in its grave) you could start a petition to the moderators with the reasons you stated and maybe enough people would support that.
My vote you'd have, though I distasted the thread.
Cheers
~Chris

No. I want the system changed so that no threads can be deleted. I believe in truth. I don't want threads deleted because of personal bias.

[stamper]

Ray do you honestly think that posting an image of a transgender into a debate about religion was the "correct" thing to do.  I would suspect the author wasn't to happy about it?

[Ray]

Ray do you honestly think that posting an image of a transgender into a debate about religion was the "correct" thing to do.  I would suspect the author wasn't to happy about it?

Absolutely! Religion is about compassion and empathy for others. Love thine enemies. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Any offense regarding medically transformed breasts is a result of a very narrow mind, in my opinion. I hope this opinion will not be censored.

[michael]

There is a simple technical issue here, not a moral one.

The software that we use allows deleting and locking of threads by the OP. This is not in our control. Unless we were to switch software, (which we won't, because we would lose years worth of discussions), there is nothing to be done about it.

None of the moderators would ever close a thread without warning, and we hardly even actually delete anything.

Michael

[Rob C]

I think that self-closing a debate is okay if you, as OP, believe that it has gone too far in the wrong direction, and I don't mean that your opinion is being beaten into the ground - that's a case for fighting back with a superior argument - but sometimes things can become nasty and more than personal (which everything has to be to an extent to mean anything) at which time, if it survives the supervisors, then you have the ability to pull plugs.

In the case in point, I think that my memory of it tells me that the OP's beliefs were not simply refuted, but that it was done in an excessively mocking way, something of which I disapprove strongly.

People (such as I) who do tend to longish posts, spend some time fighting such things as dyslexic fingers which leads to frequent retyping, all of which is hugely frustrating, but since most posts are terrible anodyne and brief, few will be hurt by thread erasures: little in = little lost.

Rob C

[Christopher Sanderson]

With the OP's consent, the Debate thread has been re-instated.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I have no problem with threads that I don't like. It's easy enough to ignore them.

I get a little concerned with threads that are either totally unrelated to photography, or that get overly repetitious, because of the extra storage space they force Michael and company to pay for. But you can't please everybody, and Michael and Company are extremely generous and, IMHO, very accommodating in the way they run the show here. I can't imagine a forum management style that could be any more open to such a variety of user tastes.

Eric M.