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Author Topic: Fuji X-T1 review  (Read 35449 times)

Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2014, 02:07:40 pm »

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Back to retro, anyone saying it's not a theme or nothing to do with marketing isn't really paying attention much!

Context is useful. Retro in general marketing terms is nothing new and comes and goes.

In this context it was about a specific series of cameras. Using them, and comparing the usability with my other cameras, shows combining traditional elements with modern is much more than a theme. It's much more than just a look or style. It works very, very well. Of course that doesn't mean it is for everyone. But perhaps, just perhaps, it is OK for some. maybe even more than OK.
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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2014, 05:55:13 pm »

In this context it was about a specific series of cameras. Using them, and comparing the usability with my other cameras, shows combining traditional elements with modern is much more than a theme. It's much more than just a look or style. It works very, very well. Of course that doesn't mean it is for everyone. But perhaps, just perhaps, it is OK for some. maybe even more than OK.
Yet the X-T1 is more difficult to use than it needs to be, because of its poorly placed retro shutter dial. Which also needs to be augmented by a second modern style thumb dial for 1/3top increments and this second dial could control all shutter speed far more easily on it's own. That retro dial placing was poor design in the days of film and is still pants. Have you actually used an X-T1? I have and the shutter dial is an unnecessary fashion gimmick because it impairs functionality.
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Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2014, 06:10:32 pm »

Yet the X-T1 is more difficult to use than it needs to be, because of its poorly placed retro shutter dial. Which also needs to be augmented by a second modern style thumb dial for 1/3top increments and this second dial could control all shutter speed far more easily on it's own. That retro dial placing was poor design in the days of film and is still pants. Have you actually used an X-T1? I have and the shutter dial is an unnecessary fashion gimmick because it impairs functionality.

Yes I have used one, at a recent Fuji event. The implementation is similar to the other X series. I appreciate that you don't find the implementation useful. You may not be the only one the feel that way. I do like it. It seems some others share my view. It's an opinion. A viewpoint. Luckily there are plenty of cameras to choose from.
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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2014, 06:21:27 pm »

Using two controls to adjust shutter speed instead of one is more complex. That is not an opinion it is a fact.
You are post rationalising an aesthetic preference, I am looking at how it actually operates.
When using a camera in a professional environment, fiddlyness can result in missed shots, which is to be avoided. I accept the camera may be fine for amateurs who admire its looks, but a tool is ultimately judged by usability. And in that area it falls short in a couple of places. Which is a shame as other aspects of the camera are very nice indeed.
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Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2014, 07:12:45 pm »

Using two controls to adjust shutter speed instead of one is more complex. That is not an opinion it is a fact.
You are post rationalising an aesthetic preference, I am looking at how it actually operates.
When using a camera in a professional environment, fiddlyness can result in missed shots, which is to be avoided. I accept the camera may be fine for amateurs who admire its looks, but a tool is ultimately judged by usability. And in that area it falls short in a couple of places. Which is a shame as other aspects of the camera are very nice indeed.

All of which is your viewpoint, based on how you work and what you shoot. It seems some others disagree, amateurs and pros, based on how they work and what they shoot.  I suppose it's possible their photography and view of tools is not as valid as yours. As noted before, it's wonderful that we can choose what works for us.
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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2014, 07:27:48 pm »

Say that using two separate controls to alter a single parameter is more complex [and therefore more mistake prone] than the usual single control, is not a viewpoint or opinion. It's a simple statement of fact.


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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2014, 07:30:33 pm »

Good news on the processing front, LR/ACR will soon support Fuji profiles and the X-T1.  ;D
Download the release candidate of ACR 8.4 to test. Note an RC is for testing final bugs, so don't swap a working ACR for this, use side by side.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:12:12 pm by jjj »
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ndevlin

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2014, 08:40:57 am »

That retro dial placing was poor design in the days of film and is still pants. Have you actually used an X-T1? I have and the shutter dial is an unnecessary fashion gimmick because it impairs functionality.

For you, maybe, but this is a personal choice not a professional truth. Without the shutter dial you need a top LCD to display and adjust shutter speed.  While adjusting shutter speed through a thumb wheel is a practical control in many cases,  all the  cameras I have ever loved using have a  direct dial.

On a related note, on the whole, I still think photographers took better pictures -- or at least better pictures per number of frames shot -- in the pre-digital age. While the volume of imaging has grown astoundingly, I have not seen substantive quality keep pace.  There are exceptions, of course, but not enough proportionately.  I partly blame the change in tools.  You could do brilliant work with an F3 or and M6 or a 500c/m. And people did.  If it's so much easier today, where's the genius art???

ps. awesome news on LR support...I have a lot of RAW files I'd really like to look at :-)

- N.
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2014, 09:06:21 am »

Design is down to taste and the type of shooting you do.
I spend 90% of my time in Aperture priority and even a single control dial meets that need. Dual dials are useful for manual no doubt and I have that on a few cameras.
If you're using the VF most of the time, then it tells you the shutter speed, tripod a camera and it can be useful to have the settings on a top panel, though I never really cared with the Minolta's I had without it.

I don't mind retro if it's practical, I don't dislike the design of the Fuji either. It's on balance probably more sensible than the odd and uncomfortable attempt to blend new and old with the Nikon DF (DF to me means "design fail") Dials on top with a D600 back doesn't work for me.

I think we have to accept that digital bodies and film cameras have in some ways different handling requirements. Obviously no need of WB controls on film and how often did you use the ISO setting? Probably not that often. I do like dials for drive modes and exp comp, and ISO is handy too. I do think aperture rings on lenses and shutter speed dials are somewhat redundant for many of us. (camera design have evolved in some ways better other ways not so much)

There is nothing here on the XT-1 that puts me off hugely, but then there isn't a lot here I can't do on an APS-C SLR body and do it for less, and have access to a far bigger system. Fuji's biggest worry is where FF prices go, once they hit sub 1000 it's going to push their margins down. If Fuji can flesh the system out and sort out the flash side of things I'll take a look at them, I do think they are trying hard not always on target but at least Fuji are offering something a bit different.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:09:05 am by barryfitzgerald »
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Manoli

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2014, 09:38:14 am »

For you, maybe, but this is a personal choice not a professional truth. Without the shutter dial you need a top LCD to display and adjust shutter speed.  While adjusting shutter speed through a thumb wheel is a practical control in many cases,  all the  cameras I have ever loved using have a  direct dial.

Nick,

First of all, many thanks for your hands-on review of the X-T1. In fact I've appreciated all your reviews on the x-series - not only are they informative but highly enjoyable and readable. Thanks.

I haven't tried the X-T1 yet , but honestly I'm not that compelled to as I've been (and am) an X-E1&2 user since the first day day they came out. The rangefinder gestalt may well have passed but I find the Fuji's produce an exceptional file, are great at high ISO, and to me at least, feel 'good in the hand' . Also, as you say, their frequency of firmware updates, not just for the latest models but also the older ones, is impressive.

Regarding the 'suitability' for professional use I think it's worth narrowing the usage definition. I like you enjoy the 'retro' dial but equally there are times when the top LCD is preferable.  I agree with your above comments but 'jjj' also makes a good point (he often does ..) when he says that  'a tool is ultimately judged by usability'. For the usage I presume he is referring to - flash and HSS amongst others the LCD is often preferable if only for the fact that on Nikon (and presumably Canon too) you are able to lock (and see) the Av/Tv settings. Regrettably you can't do that on the Fuji or any camera/lens combination that uses mechanical aperture control. I guess it comes down to personal preference .. and usage. We all have different priorities and in this case one has to make make a choice Av lock is not a feature that can be added by firmware, unfortunately.

The other thing that struck me, reading your report and some comments in this thread, is the different ways in which we each use this camera. You seemingly use autofocus a lot and are not too enamoured with focus peaking. I use manual focus, mainly adapted lenses, always shoot RAW and preview in B&W. I would now be lost without magnified live view and fp. I think it's a real credit to FujiFilm that their camera is so adaptable to so many. My only real 'wishlist' items are that they upgrade the X-E2 refresh rate to the X-T version (that's coming) and allow us to choose the fp colour.

All in all a great camera by a great company.

All best
M

ps
Oh! and one other thing - please, Fuji, gives a menu option that allows us to save our settings to disk, please ..
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:37:15 pm by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2014, 09:46:03 am »

And if you don't want to spend a fortune: http://www.paulcbuff.com/ads-e640.php
Seriously, the high-speed capability and colour accuracy of these, for the price ($500US) is really amazing.

I thought that Einstein's were only available on the US continent. Unfortunately they haven't, as far as I know expanded into Europe yet.
(by the way - my Profoto quip was 'slightly' tongue-in-cheek ...)
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Ben Rubinstein

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2014, 10:17:14 am »

PB used to sell in Europe but they were charging a fortune and it didn't last long.

jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2014, 12:42:08 pm »

For you, maybe, but this is a personal choice not a professional truth. Without the shutter dial you need a top LCD to display and adjust shutter speed.
Except when I and indeed most other people are taking photos we are usually looking through the viewfinder.  :P  And where all the relevant info is being displayed including whether the exposure is correct, camera is level and adjust there without having to look at top of camera and maybe miss shots.

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While adjusting shutter speed through a thumb wheel is a practical control in many cases,  all the  cameras I have ever loved using have a  direct dial.
Firstly the shutter dial doesn't even display all the shutter speeds, in fact only 1/3 of them. So to access the ones not displayed you need a second dial to adjust. The this means when you glance at the top [the reason some people say how much better this design is], it probably won't even be showing the right speed, so it is doubly redundant.
Regarding the top LCD on my various Canons all the info you need is there in one place including exposure reading - extremely useful. With a design like the X-T1 Aperture, ISO, compensation and possibly the correct shutter speed [but possibly not the right speed] are in separate places. But again, one should really have eye to viewfinder if you are actually taking pictures. Tripod work excepted.

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On a related note, on the whole, I still think photographers took better pictures -- or at least better pictures per number of frames shot -- in the pre-digital age. While the volume of imaging has grown astoundingly, I have not seen substantive quality keep pace.  There are exceptions, of course, but not enough proportionately.  I partly blame the change in tools.  You could do brilliant work with an F3 or and M6 or a 500c/m. And people did.  If it's so much easier today, where's the genius art???
Weddings! The standard of photography and the number of interesting shots is way above the days of film in that genre for example.
I have shot with 35mm and 6x7 film as well as digital and I kind of agree and disagree. Pros always shot a lot of film compared to amateurs in order to make sure they got the shot and film cost went against tax or expenses. Nowadays amateurs can afford to fire off as many shots as the pros and machine gun style photographers will certainly take advantage of that. But being freed from the tyranny of cost allows one to experiment more and also document less 'important' stuff, which may in years to come be of the most value as a historical record. I also recall a model photographer saying he used to pretend to load camera at start of session and once the model has warmed up then he'd put film in. Personally I find that I usually get good shots right at start when everyone is fresh or at end of shoot when everyone has warmed up. The other benefit of digital is that for some work you can end up shooting less as with instant LCD screen feedback, you know if you've nailed a shot.
I did some shots of a dancer doing some flips in Sweden, but thought shot needed something else so I got another dancer to go in background and do a handstand, took one shot and called it a wrap for that set up as I got exact placing. With film, I'd have probably done far more shots as I wouldn't know if I'd got what I wanted.
The main reason you may think quality versus quantity of shots have gone down as you only used to see the very best people's work as only good photography used to get published. Now everyone can share their multitude of banal photographs and usually without any editing down, so you actually get to see all the crud that was once invisible.

Quote
ps. awesome news on LR support...I have a lot of RAW files I'd really like to look at :-)
Thought that news may be popular. :)

Currently I think I want an X-T1 with the 14mm + 35mm lenses and an OME1 with the full range of tiny lenses and for a true pocket camera a Panasonic GM1. Except the GM1's control dials are completely useless, as I think Michael found out recently, so hurry up mark II of that camera. Justifying buying any of them when I already have a large amount of Canon kit is another thing, as they wouldn't replace my FF kit and also when a new MacPro may make my life easier than yet more cameras.

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Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2014, 07:47:34 pm »

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The main reason you may think quality versus quantity of shots have gone down as you only used to see the very best people's work as only good photography used to get published. Now everyone can share their multitude of banal photographs and usually without any editing down, so you actually get to see all the crud that was once invisible.

Hmmm. I suspect you are on to something. I have narrowed down what I look at because there is just so much out there. I can find and dismiss what you call 'crud' pretty quickly. The stuff that is even more pervasive is imitation: photographs that are  not inspired by other work, but merely imitates. Whether or not this is a bad thing isn't my point. It's just that it doesn't help me in any way. What I like to see is photography that moves and inspires me, and/or which I need for my work. On the other hand, there are a lots of very creative and talented photographers out there, and it is easier for them to share their work and have it noticed. Digital my have lowered the bar in some ways, but it may also have opened doors for talent.



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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2014, 08:56:15 am »

The problem with the digital world is there is no curation and everything that gets created can be out there on display. This makes finding the good work harder.
The benefit of the digital world is that the usually arbitrary gateways that prevent talented artists being seen by others have been removed.
Swings. Roundabouts.
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John Rausch

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2014, 07:49:35 pm »

To set shutter speeds in 1/3 stop increments, one stop not being fine enough, requires using the dial and the command wheel on the X-T1. Often bouncing back and forth between the two controls.
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markd61

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2014, 11:56:17 pm »


Seriously though Fuji will start running into problems at the T1 price point because you can buy the Canon 6D and Sony A7 for the same sort of money. The Nikon D610 is only about $150 more. I would think this may limit the market to those with a very specific set of needs. That is even without the competition from other Fuji cameras. Competition at this sort of price point has come sooner than Fuji anticipated.


I am not sure price is as big an issue as one may think. IMO cameras have moved to a position of relative equality of performance as Michael noted recently. Thus what is a primary motivating factor is the joy one derives from owning and using a certain camera. I know that I derived a huge amount of pleasure from my Leica M-4 that was outperformed on variety of levels by other 35mm cameras. In the same way the XT-1 and OMD EM-1 have their passionate adherents despite the naysayers claiming shortfalls in pixels per dollar or some other arbitrary metric.

We see this phenomenon all the time. Apple is the most vivid example where critics marvel at the foolishness of users/buyers of Apple products when cheaper analogs are available.

As for flash issues, I have to side with Nick on this. I shoot full time and use lighting on virtually every job. ETTL and TTL fall far short of reliability in my book and have never given me the reliability I need in fast paced shooting situations. Moreover, I chuckle at every demonstration of off camera TTL setups as they ALWAYS involve numerous test shots and EV compensation and then the subject moves six inches and throws off the exposure because the dumb machine sees something different. ETTL is fine for those that seem to believe it works and it certainly does if you can't manage manual but just a weeks worth of practice will get the average person getting to a keeper rate that exceeds any ETTL system.

As for HSS I find it a great  tool and we are starting to see it implemented in some newer Chinese and European strobes. As for radio triggering, I find it essential in my work but I would prefer an external trigger for two reasons.
1. Upgrade-ability. I want to take advantage of newer technology as it comes to market.
2. If the radio breaks inside the flash you are SOL on location.

For me the weakest part of the shutter on the XT-1 is its 1/160 sync speed.

I see the XT-1 as the first glimpse of mirrorless cameras coming of age. When I look at its capabilities I am struck by the fact that there is no job that I did in the last 15 years that could not have been done with splendid results with this camera.
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bcooter

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2014, 01:16:49 am »

Thus what is a primary motivating factor is the joy one derives from owning and using a certain camera.

I have two categories for equipment.

1.  Camera, lights, lenses that I love using because they allow me to produce what "I" want and . . .

2. Cameras, lights, lenses, that I have to use for commerce because the work fast, or reliable or easier and allow me to get the job done.

Funny thing is they don't usually and always become cross purpose.   What does that tell you about the world of commerce.

A DSLR will do anything well.  Not great, not usually unique, but well.  The focus fast, have long battery life, lenses are everywhere and their amazingly reliable, even for video with enough ad ons.

The issue is they don't really work that uniquely.  As I've stated I'm shocked a little fit in your hand 43 camera can make a better out of camera file that suites my taste better than a camera like my 1dx that cost 3 times more.  

I'm more than happy that someone (oly and pana) actually built a under $25,000 still camera that shot a 4:3 native format with a viewfinder you can focus, waist level or straight on.

As someone said the cameras that stick with me are usually more camera than digital, my contax, the leica s2, the leica m and the em-5/1. The last one is hard to quantify because it' so digital to set up but works so analog once it's done.

It's interesting but I think with mirrorless we're just at the beginning of what digital can really do.   The olympus, fuji, Sony, are so close to being really professional cameras.   They all shoot a comparable file, I'd rate them at olympus, fuji in a tie, Sony a third, but they also are not exactly professional with some rough patches like the fuji's lack of video and limited lenses, the Sony's apparent problems that have run from shutter bounce to light leaks along and the olympus with silly omissions like lack of tethering, finally a pc connection (which when you need it you really need it) and the worst part of mirrorless is small batteries on cameras that use a lot of power.

If Canon and Nikon wasn't so entrenched with traditional cameras they probably have the resources to build a mirrorless pro camera and knock it out of the park, but I think they'll wait until they have to, if ever.

If Olympus and Fuji weren't trying to play to mass numbers (they have to) and pick up or maintain market share they could obviously build an off the scale killer system that could do anything, if Panasonic joined one of them for video they should own the world, but people equate bigger is better an will probably buy a 5d way before they'd buy a mirrorless system.

Michael mentioned this, but think about it.   With the standard 43 system Olympus built a beautiful and huge lens line thinking they could break into the pro market with a 43 dslr.   It didn't happen because they were large cameras with small sensors and fairly large and expensive lenses.  

But everyone here ask themselves this.   Who here would buy a $4,000 mirrorless camera that did 4k video and 25 to 30 mpx stills, had the olympus lenses that costs $1800 to $3,500.   A system with a software suite, tethering, pro video out, in other words everything a Canon 1dc gives you but in a smaller package for less price and more use, just smaller.

That's a hard sell.

But cost is relative.  My most expensive cameras were my contax, my phase backs and RED 1's.   They're now old but still more than viable.  Along with profoto flash, the contax/phase are the most cost effective equipment I've ever bought, My RED 1's the most profitable.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 01:22:09 am by bcooter »
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ndevlin

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2014, 08:20:05 am »


James, you really need to try the OM-D E-M1 (did I get that right? Who the F names these things???)

The E-M5 was ok. The M1 is really a step up. Michael loves it for a reason.  If you like the "5" you'll love the "1".

Also, what you say is so true -- there is a real divide between the 'for love' and 'for money' cameras. I too own a dslr, mostly bc it just gets the job done.  Someone ask for a quick headshot? Grab the D800, bang, it's done. The day someone brings these two together will be a happy day indeed.

Micro 4/3rds is getting close.  Really close.

The interesting thing is that people still say, "why would I buy that when I can get a dslr for the same price?" Like bigger is better.  Kind of like with cars. This is a really western vs. Asia split, which the sales #s on mirrorless demonstrate.  There's no reason a smaller camera should cost less. Indeed, if IQ is equivalent, it is offering more. 

My complaint is that, for me,  the 'very electronic' cameras still have this fog of digital controls that descends btw  me and the shooting experience.   Nothing has felt as right as the see-focus-click-wind of my Mamiya 6. It's like electric steering in cars.  It works. You get used to it. But I still kind of dislike it. When I get behind the wheel of a car where all that's between me and the road are a few feet of metal and some gearing, it just feels right in a way that is hard to describe. 

The synthetic photography experience is just lacking something for me.  (I say 'synthetic' in reference to EVFs, fly-by-wire, endless modal menus and virtual focus points.) Maybe at 42 I'm just getting old and crochety.  But I like to drive :-)
 
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2014, 08:38:22 am »

There are 2 distinct points.
A micro 4/3 sensor has to cost less to make than an APS-C one (not that APS-C sensors are even remotely expensive to make - not if we look at the price of budget DSLR's anyway) Point being here..there is a feeling among many that smaller sensor products should cost less than larger ones (you can take that all the way up to FF if you want)

It's not really about body size (though you could argue less materials and simpler construction will be cheaper to manufacture, ie less parts/materials and assembly time)
I don't really care how nice the EM-1 is build wise, it's hard to justify the price tag of 1250 odd.

The E-M10 is however a step in the right direction (much more sensible price point)
Folks can pay what they want but reality is there is no point paying FF prices for a micro 4/3 sensor, unless you are heavily invested in the system.
Most people will just buy Canikon DSLR's which is pretty much what they are doing. A FF Canikon costs around the same as the Olympus, and you can get a semi pro level APS-C camera for significantly less. Anyone shocked Canikon are holding firm and ILC makers are unable to dent their lead?


Everything has a price, and you can't remove the sensor aspect from that.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 08:40:40 am by barryfitzgerald »
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