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Author Topic: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions  (Read 23398 times)

Doug Peterson

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Phase One IQ250 Tech Camera Testing

Go crazy guys. Ask questions. Tear the files apart. Find the good. Find the bad. Let me know what you think of my effective image circle evaluations - they are very much a work in progress.

I'm going to try my best NOT to be online tonight. Bit burnt out - I worked all weekend and then sat on a tarmac for 3 hours yesterday - the entire time I was working on processing and working up this test.

We have a few more tests captured, including a great ISO sweep at this same location (I say great because it's a good location for an ISO sweep - lots of dark and light tones, lots of fine detail, lots of color) but it will probably be a few more days before I get to post them as we have an IQ250 Open House in NYC on Wednesday that I have to help prep.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:42:50 pm by Doug Peterson »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: DT Tech Cam Test - IQ250 vs IQ260 vs IQ280
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 06:54:18 pm »

Go crazy guys. Ask questions. Tear the files apart. Find the good. Find the bad. Let me know what you think of my effective image circle evaluations - they are very much a work in progress.

I'm going to try my best NOT to be online tonight. Bit burnt out - I worked all weekend and then sat on a tarmac for 3 hours yesterday - the entire time I was working on processing and working up this test.

Hi Doug,

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the work you've done, sofar , thanks. I'll have a look at the results after getting some sleep myself.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

ErikKaffehr

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Re: DT Tech Cam Test - IQ250 vs IQ260 vs IQ280
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 07:35:39 pm »

+1!

Thank's a lot!

Erik

Hi Doug,

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the work you've done, sofar , thanks. I'll have a look at the results after getting some sleep myself.

Cheers,
Bart
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Paul2660

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+2 Thanks for the work. 

Curious why the 60 behaved so badly when it works well very well on the 160/260 and 280.

Will the Rod 28 be tested in the future?

Also just wanted to double check, the crop factor would make the 40mm effectively a 52mm on the 250?

Paul C


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Paul Caldwell
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dchew

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Another thank you Doug!

Also just wanted to double check, the crop factor would make the 40mm effectively a 52mm on the 250?

Paul C

Yes that's right if you are comparing it to a 53.7 x 40.4mm sensor. A 40mm on an IQ260/80 is 26mm in 135 format (24x36mm). A 40mm on an IQ250 is 31.5mm in 135 format.

Dave
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Paul2660

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Thanks Don

I was comparing it to the full frame 160/260 and 280 sensor.  Love what I see with the 250 but the crop is a issue for me as I want/need the wider the better. 

Paul C

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Paul Caldwell
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BernardLanguillier

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Splendid building!

Very interesting tests, thanks for taking the time to perform this.

Cheers,
Bernard

robdickinson

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If I had a truckload of money you would be getting it. but I dont. anyone need a kidney?
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Rod.Klukas

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The 60mm difference in performance in my opinion, gets back to the micro lens issue and how the image is projected and received by the sensor.
The 60mm is sort of a transitional lens from a traditional, wide angle focal length lens, to a normal configuration, which starting at 70mm move towards a normal lens in design philosophy.  Normal lenses and longer focal lengths, generally project a much flatter, physically, image shape.  This is easier for any sensor to accept.
A retest and perhaps, a test at other apertures such as even F16 might be in order.
There are some interesting lens phenomonon's, with various lenses.  The 47mm APO-Digitar XL, for example,  is not stellar with 80mp backs in most cases, yet is more than adequate up close, for still life at F16(!) and on 80mp backs.  The longer focal lengths say 120mm and longer generally do better stopped down a bit further even at F16 with 80mp backs.
The 60mm XL may prove to be one of those which just has an eccentric way of performing with some digital backs.

Anyway, Doug did a fantastic job, and we all owe him a heartfelt thanks for his in depth, hard work on this test.  Thanks again, Doug.
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torger

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Thanks for this Doug, and great to publish the raw files, I'm very grateful!

The IQ250 files can be processed in RawTherapee by the way, but probably there need to be some matrix fixing before getting full support.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 02:36:23 am by torger »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 02:12:35 am »

Hi,

Absolutely agree! Thanks for the effort!

Best regards
Erik

Thanks for this Doug, and great to publish the raw files, I'm very grateful!
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Fine_Art

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2014, 02:43:55 am »

Thanks for this Doug, and great to publish the raw files, I'm very grateful!

The IQ250 files can be processed in RawTherapee by the way, but probably there need to be some matrix fixing before getting full support.

How? I tried adding eip extension, no go. Changing it to iiq didn't work either.
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torger

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 02:56:10 am »

How? I tried adding eip extension, no go. Changing it to iiq didn't work either.

The .eip files are ordinary zip archives, unzip (rename to .zip if required) and search for the 0.IIQ file. RT is a bit buggy with files called the same name (can't have two open with same name) so if you unpack several .eip rename the 0.IIQ to different names.

I'm going to look more at the files and do some analysis but I just got a hard disk failure :-\ so I'm recovering stuff

With RawTherapee you get some pretty bad mazing in the demosaicing for shifted areas on the wides. When I get some time again I'll try to figure out why. Probably it's a side effect of pixel vignetting which Capture One is better at hiding.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 03:20:23 am by torger »
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Manoli

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 03:05:12 am »

Many thanks Doug, and kudos for all the time and effort - very much appreciated
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torger

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 04:57:27 am »

A quick look with rawdigger on HR32 LCC (Rodenstock Digaron-W 32mm) it seems like about 3.5 stops of the signal is lost from center to the edge of the 90mm image circle, and there's no major difference between the channels. Can't guarantee I've calculated the offsets right though :-).

It doesn't seem to be as bad as I expected.

Was a center filter used on the 32mm?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 04:59:03 am by torger »
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torger

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 05:48:50 am »

A comment on shooting apertures; f/9 is quite wide.

The Scheider 35 XL and Schneider 47 XL is optimized for f/11, and my preference is that for larger shifts you stop them down further to f/16 to get more even center vs corner sharpness.

The Rodenstocks do f/9 well, but my personal taste is towards f/11 anyway to reduce aliasing and false colors and get a more workable depth of field. Anyway different shooters have different tastes regarding this and there are many that would prefer f/9 so the test is fine. If one does prefer f/9 the SK35XL and 47XL is not the lenses to use though.
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henrikfoto

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 06:10:25 am »

Very nice test Doug!!
Thank you :)
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Paul2660

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2014, 07:36:28 am »

Doug, you wrote:

"Processing/Color: Processing of the composite files was done in Capture One v7. White balance, which is hard to determine in a mixed-light moody scene like this was set roughly during processing to attempt to match the several backs and lenses in the same ballpark - however, this is an imperfect process especially as some of the lens+back combinations had uncorrectable color cast. We do not recommend this test be used to evaluate the subtle differences in color between these three backs (we will have more testing specific to color coming soon)."

Which lens/back combinations had in correctable color casts?

What are your recommendation for the max shift with the IQ250/40mm Rodenstock combination?

Thanks
Paul C
 
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Paul Caldwell
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torger

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 07:55:59 am »

What are your recommendation for the max shift with the IQ250/40mm Rodenstock combination?

There's a table for that in the link, 90mm image circle is recommended, ie the full official image circle can be used.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing (vs IQ260 vs IQ280) by Digital Transitions
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 10:01:06 am »

Curious why the 60 behaved so badly when it works well very well on the 160/260 and 280.

I am too! I hope to do more IQ250 and 60XL testing at additional apertures and with more exposure variation, but not soon.

Will the Rod 28 be tested in the future?


I hope to add the Schneider 43XL and a longer lens to our testing sometime but the 28HR is not on my list largely because we don't have and don't plan to have one in our demo/rental inventory. If you (or any other 28HR owner) happen to be in NYC, Texas, or Vegas at our upcoming events then I could try to coordinate such a test.


Also just wanted to double check, the crop factor would make the 40mm effectively a 52mm on the 250?

You can use our visualizer to compare the IQ250 and IQ260 for effective focal lengths. You can use the lower version (the beta) to compare with and without stitching images.
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