Alpa MAX vs XY for stitching

[Brian Hirschfeld]

I'm sort of moving a step ahead of myself since I have decided to see if I like T/S with a 24mm Nikon PCE, but anyway,

from a stitching perspective obviously the XY has more shifting ability and it also has geared movements, but are there quality lenses with an image circle that will allow you to take full advantage of the extra shift of the XY? Or, if not full then at least more then could be accomplished then with the MAX?

Also, what are the requirements for using the FPS in terms of lenses, its short barreled versions right? and if you have the short barreled versions for use with the FPS when mounted on the back of something like the XY or MAX and then you didn't want to use the FPS are there spacing adapters which you can use? I think there are but I'm not terribly clear on the subject, thanks for the help,

Best,
BH

[Steve Hendrix]

I'm sort of moving a step ahead of myself since I have decided to see if I like T/S with a 24mm Nikon PCE, but anyway,

from a stitching perspective obviously the XY has more shifting ability and it also has geared movements, but are there quality lenses with an image circle that will allow you to take full advantage of the extra shift of the XY? Or, if not full then at least more then could be accomplished then with the MAX?

Also, what are the requirements for using the FPS in terms of lenses, its short barreled versions right? and if you have the short barreled versions for use with the FPS when mounted on the back of something like the XY or MAX and then you didn't want to use the FPS are there spacing adapters which you can use? I think there are but I'm not terribly clear on the subject, thanks for the help,

Best,
BH

Compared to Max, XY has all movements geared (Max horizontal shift is not geared). Also the adapter which keeps the lens stable while camera performs rise/fall is standard (instead of an option with Max). And it's true - the XY has the most combined movement (+45/-25 rise/fall and +25/+25 shift), while the Max has (+25/-18 rise/fall and +18/+18 shift). And there are numerous lenses that can take advantage of the additional movement headroom the XY offers over the Max.

The FPS can accept lenses in FPS mount, but also lenses in SB34 mount plus any 17mm device ending in FPS, (17mm FPS Adapter, 17mm FPS T/S Adapter, 6mm Multi-Use Adapter + 11mm FPS Adapter). This means with connecting hooks on both sides.

Studying up on our Alpa today....  

Extremely excited at the possibilities of the IQ250 and Alpa FPS.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[Paul2660]

Brian:

Have you considered the Arca RL3di?  Movements on this are quite large, at +40/-20 rise fall and 20/20 shift. 

With the wides, 23Rod and 28Rod, you will get a max of 5 to 7mm of shift due to the artificial vignette, 32mm Rod about 16 to 18mm you hit the artificial vignette at 16mm on a full frame back MF. 

35XL 8mm maybe 10mm on a 60MP back and won't play at all on the 80MP, 43XL will get 12mmon the 60MP, maybe 8mm on the 80MP. 

40mm Rod gets about 16mm of shift clean before the artificial vignette, then can be pushed to 18 before the corners go pure black.

60mm Schneider will get a lot of shift on the 60MP back around 25mm (I rotate my rm3di 90 degrees) 

I can't think of another lens combination that will take advantage of 20 to 25mm of shift (or rise/fall).  But I am thinking about MF back and Arca. But I am thinking wides only.  The FPS has more room as you can use the 35mm tilt shift lenses but they are 12mm max movement at least Canon and Nikon. 

I gave up quickly on the Nikon 24mm on the D800, tried a lot of them and never found one that held up on shifts at all.  Others seem to have good success with them, so I may have gotten bad copies.   

Paul C.

[buckshot]

I'd really look carefully at the XY and what lenses you intend to use. There are probably some non-retrofocus wide-angle 'analogue' lenses out there that could use the full 45mm shift, but digital lenses? I doubt it. Even in Alpa's own literature new lenses like the S/K 120 - which has an IC of 150mm - only have a usable IC of 110mm when mounted on an Alpa (even in SB mount) due to mechanical vignetting of the lens mount. So, with 'digital' lenses it leaves you wondering what the advantages of the XY are - it looks to me like the MAX can do everything the XY can but in a more compact form (the XY is 2.5kg body only, before you add in the stitching column etc.)

If you want T/S with the FPS (with the FPS as a standalone camera, not acting as a shutter module) you're restricted to Canikon lenses or lenses in SB 34mm mounts - so no way to use the R/S 32 or 40 which use the SB 17mm mount. If you use it as a shutter module (e.g. with a TC) then you're restricted even further - to Zeiss/Hasselbad CB/CF/CFi/CFE/F/FE/ZV in Hasselblad V mount (via the Hasselblad V lens adapter + FPS 5 degree T/S adapter).

[Steve Hendrix]

I'd really look carefully at the XY and what lenses you intend to use. There are probably some non-retrofocus wide-angle 'analogue' lenses out there that could use the full 45mm shift, but digital lenses? I doubt it. Even in Alpa's own literature new lenses like the S/K 120 - which has an IC of 150mm - only have a usable IC of 110mm when mounted on an Alpa (even in SB mount) due to mechanical vignetting of the lens mount. So, with 'digital' lenses it leaves you wondering what the advantages of the XY are - it looks to me like the MAX can do everything the XY can but in a more compact form (the XY is 2.5kg body only, before you add in the stitching column etc.)

If you want T/S with the FPS (with the FPS as a standalone camera, not acting as a shutter module) you're restricted to Canikon lenses or lenses in SB 34mm mounts - so no way to use the R/S 32 or 40 which use the SB 17mm mount. If you use it as a shutter module (e.g. with a TC) then you're restricted even further - to Zeiss/Hasselbad CB/CF/CFi/CFE/F/FE/ZV in Hasselblad V mount (via the Hasselblad V lens adapter + FPS 5 degree T/S adapter).

Choosing an XY over a Max certainly calls for more consideration than just the additional movements, due to the size and expense. So you have to carefully consider whether the dual geared movements and additional headroom are worth it, since the majority of lenses won't take full advantage of it, or if so, not completely, depending on which digital back you're using. But the new 90mm HR for example, is one lens that easily exceeds the Max on the XY.

I forgot to mention one other advantage of the XY over the Max, which is the dampening control that helps with heavier lenses. It's roughly $2,000 more than the Max, so one has to truly need these features and not mind the size/weight.

On the FPS, I'm finding it a fascinating product. It's important to keep in mind that there are many, many more photographers doing many, many more different types of photographic projects than anyone practically realizes. From a user standpoint, input on product experience is very valuable, but from our standpoint as a dealer for these products, we have to look at it with a different viewpoint. Meaning we have to know the possibilities of a product. Because we cannot assume that every user will be similar or have the same application. A feature that seems limiting or absent from a product is relevant only if the product has a feature that a user would benefit from. And it's rare that one product clicks all the boxes perfectly, but more common that a product has an essential feature or capability that presents a game changing aspect. I am finding many such possibilities with the Alpa FPS Camera, particularly in combination with the Phase One IQ250 (and potential future CMOS-based MFD products).


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration