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Author Topic: Sigma DP Quattro  (Read 122734 times)

Misirlou

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2014, 05:15:45 pm »

It's interesting to me that the "new" battery is the same spec as one used on numerous Canon DSLRs (such as my old 40D). And the new filter ring size is 58mm, also a common Canon spec. Combine that with the frequent rumors that Canon is working on a Foveon-like sensor, and you really start to wonder...
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Hulyss

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2014, 05:17:47 pm »

Is it true that this new sensor will be prone to moire, compared to the Merrill sensors, where moire isn't a problem?

No. Do not listen at legends :p
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Misirlou

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2014, 05:33:00 pm »

No. Do not listen at legends :p

Yes, I doubt Sigma would spend a fortune in R&D to bring a camera to market that has worse image quality than the one it replaces. There's no reason to stick with a Foveon sensor, and all that issues that entails, if it doesn't bring along the traditional Foveon benefits.

Every time a new sensor with a smaller pixel pitch is announced from Canon or Nikon, the howls go up about how smaller photosites will lead to more noise. But does anyone then find noise problems in photos from those new cameras? How many out there have abandoned their D800s for older, lower-res cameras?

My point is that we're on the very left side of Roger Cicala's "Law of New Product Introduction" (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/a-bit-of-a7r-sanity) right now for the Quattro cameras. They may prove to be terrible, or fantastic. But let's wait and see which it will be before we make our pronouncements. Personally, my guess is that they'll be better in just about way than the Merrill generation, but I have nothing but vague hopes to back that up.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2014, 06:19:06 pm »

It's interesting to me that the "new" battery is the same spec as one used on numerous Canon DSLRs (such as my old 40D). And the new filter ring size is 58mm, also a common Canon spec. Combine that with the frequent rumors that Canon is working on a Foveon-like sensor, and you really start to wonder...

Hum... yes, I have noticed that Nikon has some 58mm ring size lenses as well, Canon might be considering buying them also.

Cheers,
Bernard

robdickinson

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2014, 06:32:52 pm »

Always interesting tech but it seems like Sigma never want to actually sell cameras. Price, design, technology all targeted at people who think Ricoh make too mainstream a product.
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MrSmith

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2014, 06:34:17 pm »

The batteries in the Dp 1/2/3 are the same as some Pentax and Ricoh models, I read nothing into this whatsoever.
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Mulis Pictus

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2014, 04:17:51 am »

What if they improved the battery life, processing speed, noise performance, etc. but the image quality suffers somehow ?

That's what I am wondering too. I would expect issues on the edges in the image where the color might bleed behind the edge. I guess they will try to fix it in the postprocessing, but not sure how well that will work.

MrSmith27

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2014, 05:20:59 am »

That's what I am wondering too. I would expect issues on the edges in the image where the color might bleed behind the edge. I guess they will try to fix it in the postprocessing, but not sure how well that will work.

I seriously doubt that image quality will be worse. Here's why:

1) Sigma's DP cameras are a serious niche market. The only reason those sell is Foveon-aficionados which have, by definition, very high demands on image color, sharpness, contrast, and so on. To release a new camera with worse quality than the last generation would literally constitute suicide on Sigma's part.

2) Foveon is not simply three sensors stacked above each other where each sensors takes one color. Instead the different layers all take portions of most of the spectrum after which some algorithm calculates the global color information. The way I understand it this is why high ISO doesn't work (different noise on different sensors layers) and why in-camera JPGs look so bad (processor not powerful enough). Now it's perfectly possible that in the last generation Sigma simply collected too much data which was actually never used. So potentially the three times 15 MP of the Merrills was 15 MP from the top layer and then some from the bottom layers.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 05:22:58 am by MrSmith27 »
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Pete_G

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2014, 06:25:20 am »

A lot of people are going to want an L bracket on this camera. The new thin body design is going to require a brilliant design to produce an elegant solution.
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OldRoy

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2014, 06:46:23 am »

Sigma aren't likely to introduce an interchangeable lens variant when they've successfully managed to bamboozle people into buying multiple cameras in order to cover the focal length range. Now that's what you can really describe as "retro" - never mind a faux prism hump.
Roy
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MrSmith27

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2014, 07:19:04 am »

Sigma aren't likely to introduce an interchangeable lens variant when they've successfully managed to bamboozle people into buying multiple cameras in order to cover the focal length range. Now that's what you can really describe as "retro" - never mind a faux prism hump.
Roy

I actually don't hate the choice: I tend to bring my DP2M (45mm) and my DP3M (75mm) and don't have to worry about changing lenses. I also like that I have different file names for different focal lenghts (e.g. DP3M0001.X3F and so on). And it effectively gives me twice the battery.

That being said I'm not entirely sure why Sigma decided not to have interchangeable lenses? It feels to me that this would make the camera a lot easier to sell, for example they could produce a lower-quality zoom lens for the masses. I want to think there is a technical reason for the bolted on lenses (maybe the sensor is extremely close to lens? maybe sensor dust is a bigger issue for foveon? maybe the sensors are actually not completely identical but somehow tweaked for the specific lens?)

Anybody here with technical knowledge who could expand on that?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 07:21:12 am by MrSmith27 »
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B-Ark

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2014, 07:40:54 am »

I haven't seen much about processing the raw files. With the whack-a-doodle "different megapixels on different layers" approach, what are the chances that anyone (Adobe?) will be able to process these files? I'm still waiting for options (other than DPP), to process the files from the DP2m.
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MrSmith27

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2014, 08:04:15 am »

I haven't seen much about processing the raw files. With the whack-a-doodle "different megapixels on different layers" approach, what are the chances that anyone (Adobe?) will be able to process these files? I'm still waiting for options (other than DPP), to process the files from the DP2m.


a.s. 0%. It's okay though because the workaround of using Sigma's software to produce tiffs, then import those into Lightroom, works.
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LKaven

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2014, 08:53:04 am »

Has anyone found a technical paper on this sensor so far? 

The Ute

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2014, 09:15:16 am »

There should be a lot more info. forthcoming after the Japan show.

We need a price and a release date along with some sample images.

Better be under $1000.

;)

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RobertJ

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2014, 09:22:00 am »

I'm guessing $1,599.99 a piece.  I HOPE I'M WRONG.
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The Ute

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2014, 09:25:41 am »

I'm guessing $1,599.99 a piece.  I HOPE I'M WRONG.

No way I pay that.

I'll stick with what I have.

Maybe add a DP3 on the cheap.
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MarkL

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2014, 03:38:50 pm »

I'm guessing $1,599.99 a piece.  I HOPE I'M WRONG.

It'd have to be pretty eathshattering IQ-wise if that is the case.
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MrSmith27

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2014, 05:00:49 pm »

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Mulis Pictus

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Re: Sigma DP Quattro
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2014, 05:31:39 pm »

I seriously doubt that image quality will be worse. Here's why:

1) Sigma's DP cameras are a serious niche market. The only reason those sell is Foveon-aficionados which have, by definition, very high demands on image color, sharpness, contrast, and so on. To release a new camera with worse quality than the last generation would literally constitute suicide on Sigma's part.

I wouldn't be that sure here. From outside it looks to me as improving the other aspects might be on behalf of the image quality.

2) Foveon is not simply three sensors stacked above each other where each sensors takes one color. Instead the different layers all take portions of most of the spectrum after which some algorithm calculates the global color information. The way I understand it this is why high ISO doesn't work (different noise on different sensors layers) and why in-camera JPGs look so bad (processor not powerful enough). Now it's perfectly possible that in the last generation Sigma simply collected too much data which was actually never used. So potentially the three times 15 MP of the Merrills was 15 MP from the top layer and then some from the bottom layers.

From the info we have now it looks to me that the full spatial information is only available in the top layer. So I guess the full detail will be available only for luminance and part of the spectrum around blue. Rest, around green and red might have lower resolution and that's why I think it might cause problems on the edges or in color patterns. The postprocessing might fix some of that, but the information is simply not captured.
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