Exciting times!

[henrikfoto]

On the other hand Pentax don't have the problem with tollerances between body and back.
That is many times a problem for Phase and Leaf if you test them.
They have a complete integrated system. I like that idea even if I use my back also for LF.

[LKaven]

It will be fun to test the Phaseone claims that they know better than anybody else how to extract top image quality from a chip. Pentax is making the same claims in fact.

I'd like to note again that the Exmors have, of course, on board gain/A-D stages, and deliver digital image data straight off the sensor.  So the image quality -- the look -- is mostly predetermined by the sensor.  It's not quite the 'black art' that it was to implement a CCD sensor. 

And, if it is indeed better, then to check whether it is 25,000 US$ worth better or not. 
[...] I would be extremely surprised if the 645DII sold for more than 10,000 US$.

With the sensor (mostly) assuring consistent image quality between cameras, it will be hard to justify a $25,000 premium. 

[aaron]

The worry here is the lenses prices.....

I am sure the 645DII will be a bargain relative to the MFD competition but the last two lens released have both been in the $5,000/£3,500 range.
The new "wide zoom" will be unlikely to break this trend, unless Ricoh plans to overhall the price point for the 645D line.

So a Single body plus three lens kit is still over the $20,000 mark. Not exactly 'cheap'........

[hjulenissen]

I'd like to note again that the Exmors have, of course, on board gain/A-D stages, and deliver digital image data straight off the sensor.  So the image quality -- the look -- is mostly predetermined by the sensor.  It's not quite the 'black art' that it was to implement a CCD sensor.  

Still there are differences between Sony and Nikon FF DSLRs?

-h

[jduncan]

Still there are differences between Sony and Nikon FF DSLRs?

-h

Yes but they are marginal, so is the price difference. The saving point of Phase is the separate back (technical cameras), tradition, dealers, strong control over the blogosphere and capture one.

I guess they will release this year a new camera, and they will have then a pretty compelling package.

Best regards,

J. Duncan

[synn]

Sony DSLRs have better out of the box skin and from what I hear, it's due to the different bayer filter array they use compared to the Nikons.

[BernardLanguillier]

Phase One provides a full-frame system with detachable backs (sure IQ250 isn't full-frame but full-frame is coming), so I don't think it's really comparable. If you need a detachable back or having it upgradeable to full-frame 645 Pentax is not going to help you.

Yes, there are differences, but it seems that the IQ250 has some limitations on technical cameras, so the value of a detachable back seems significantly less to me than it would be with an IQ260 for instance.

I believe that many photographers, probably a large majority, will never take their IQ250 off their DF camera.

About lenses, yes recent Pentax lenses are expensive, but they are also pretty much best in class and still much cheaper than Leica S glass for example, right?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Doug Peterson]

I believe that many photographers, probably a large majority, will never take their IQ250 off their DF camera.

"DF Camera" meaning DF Camera, H1/H2/H4X, RZ, Contax, or Fuji 680.

I think we'll still sell a good number to tech camera users based on the tests we completed this week and should be posting tomorrow.

Also, we haven't tested it yet (focus has been testing for tech cameras, live view, and ISO range) but most still life / product / tabletop shooters are very much on our radar as they typically focus much closer than infinity and don't often use the ultra-wide lenses we are most concerned with on the IQ250.

[torger]

Also, we haven't tested it yet (focus has been testing for tech cameras, live view, and ISO range) but most still life / product / tabletop shooters are very much on our radar as they typically focus much closer than infinity and don't often use the ultra-wide lenses we are most concerned with on the IQ250.

Yes, we're focused on wides here as we like landscape and architecture, but there's also product photography and in that case the IQ250 should be great. With the relatively static workflow indoors I'd think that the current CCD backs are good enough and that CMOS-style live view would not be as desirable as it is to us field photographers though, so it will be interesting to see how popular it will be.

But seeing focus and tilt/movements in realtime on a large tethered computer screen in 30 fps directly from your Linhof M679 or Sinar P3... if that works well, I guess it could be a real hit even if you don't absolute need it.

[uaiomex]

It comes to my mind that if the 645D2 becomes a really hot seller, Sigma could start an Art series for the Pentax first and then some other "645" bodies.
Eduardo

The worry here is the lenses prices.....

I am sure the 645DII will be a bargain relative to the MFD competition but the last two lens released have both been in the $5,000/£3,500 range.
The new "wide zoom" will be unlikely to break this trend, unless Ricoh plans to overhall the price point for the 645D line.

So a Single body plus three lens kit is still over the $20,000 mark. Not exactly 'cheap'........

[henrikfoto]

Yes, I am sure they will,  but it will be a lot harder for them to justify why they need to price a
product with the same sensor 3-4 times higher. And you don't even get a camera...

[bcooter]

Yes, I am sure they will,  but it will be a lot harder for them to justify why they need to price a
product with the same sensor 3-4 times higher. And you don't even get a camera...

From a professional viewpoint, they need to match the depth and look of a ccd, hopefully with a little higher iso.

If they can't, post work does wonders, but Pentax really, really needs to take a page out of Leica's book and make a series of smart adapters for lenses to move people from other formats, or to offer an alternative.

I bought the S2 because it didn't obsolete my contax/phase it increased their usefullness and two weeks after buying that body only, I've added a Leica lens, adapters, more batteries, screens,  . . . in other words I'm buying stuff.   Maybe not the full lens system, but it's a lot better for leica than me moving to a Nikon.

Pentax may be playing to the shoot flowers and mountains Japanese market, but they've sure missed a bet with the pros.

Pentax need a tethering suite.  Phase won't make it for them, Lightroom is ok but I'm not too sold on it being a tethering suite.

I truly don't understand the Japanese manufacturers when it comes to tethering.   Canons DPP is bulletproof but not a robust suite without the use of a second program like bridge to check focus.

Olympus as much as  I love their cameras, has zero tethering and a processing suite that makes that nikon software look intuitive. (which is almost impossible).

Note to phase one.    If you want to add some cash to the coffers that won't break into your camera market, call up the olympus boys/girls and say hey for $ _________  and if you give us you code we'll get these things tethering for you.  They could do the same for Panasonic and Leica and I promise you the person buying those cameras are not going to replace their phase backs with a 43 olympus.  Actually the big megapixel lovers aren't going to look at any camera smaller than their head for professional production.

Also note to phase.  Having to move to newer computers to run 7.0 is imo a big error.   Any professional is running multiple machines and I'm not the norm but I have 10 to 12 workstations and I'm not going to toss them in the recycle bin to use 7.0, though two unfortunatley run Maverick.

For the life of me I don't know why still software is so damn heavy.   I could run a aptus 22 all day long on an old apple 13" powerbook with v8 (ugly but effective software) and never drop a frame.  

I'm all for progress as long as it's my decision and not forced upon me, but nothing turns me off more to download a software trial and get the combined message from apple and Phase One  "throw this computer away and buy some new computers and thank you for beta testing."



IMO

BC

[Telecaster]

Yes, we're focused on wides here as we like landscape and architecture...

I bought my 645D primarily as a portrait camera. Does a fine job with the urban landscape too. I have the Pentax 35mm lens but rarely use it...the 55, 75 & 150mm lenses are the ones that float my boat.

(Just to point out that not everyone here is a nature/wildlife pic-taker, and that some architecture snappers prefer abstracting portions of structures rather than "fitting it all in.")

-Dave-

[eronald]

I bought the S2 because it didn't obsolete my contax/phase it increased their usefullness and two weeks after buying that body only, I've added a Leica lens, adapters, more batteries, screens,  . . . in other words I'm buying stuff.   Maybe not the full lens system, but it's a lot better for leica than me moving to a Nikon.
BC

J,

At some point of the S discussion I became so frustrated with GAS-induced (Gear acquisition syndrome) emotions that I discovered the internet, downloaded a bunch of maths books and suddenly rediscovered my ability to do and have fun with maths.

I even phoned my ex-Cantab friend John Horton Conway, who complained that since Andrew Wiles had his big day, people won't  fly him across the world for dinner anymore. Regretfully, he had forgotten me, but remembered my accented voice. Although he was  quite good at solving the Rubik's cube behind his back, John Horton's last major work was a proof that if electrons have free will then people do too, which I guess is fun to hear even if one has trouble understanding it.

Anyway, it is strange how one can find fun and inspiration in both stuff and just abstract thought; in the end I wonder whether you don't quite realize that *in your special case* people here are actually more interested in the way your images look than in your gear.

And, btw, I'd recommend a UV filter on the Contax lenses.


Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Why?

Erik

And, btw, I'd recommend a UV filter on the Contax lenses.


Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would suggest we have a lot of different characters posting on these forums. Some shoot in studio, some shoot portraits. There are landscape shooters and architecture photographers. Some shoot for pleasure and some shoot for living.

Personally I shoot for pleasure and mostly landscape kind stuff, both DSLR and MFD, using everything I have from 10 mm fisheye to 800 mm. Gear is nice to have, except paying for and the need to carry.

In my case, I would say that tethering doesn't matter (for me), nor do sync times or electronic flash.

Best regards
Erik

I bought my 645D primarily as a portrait camera. Does a fine job with the urban landscape too. I have the Pentax 35mm lens but rarely use it...the 55, 75 & 150mm lenses are the ones that float my boat.

(Just to point out that not everyone here is a nature/wildlife pic-taker, and that some architecture snappers prefer abstracting portions of structures rather than "fitting it all in.")

-Dave-

[eronald]

Because.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=86673.msg706544#msg706544

e.

Why?

Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Thanks Edmund!

Good insight!

Erik

Because.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=86673.msg706544#msg706544

e.

[bcooter]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.   Obviously Edmund was doing a math project and came across some fact that black isn't always black in the world of digital capture.

Hey, I think defending a camera, or a lens is like defending my choice of car tires.

But for the record I've seen color in black on everything, in fact stick an eye dropper on a black patch and watch the world change from yellow, or purple, or green, but rarely neutral, but hey isn't neutral boring.

You know the little m8 had this weird thing that would happen on smooth backgrounds.  The color would change depending on lenses and Leica had some kind of firmware fix, but I liked the look of the overall file so much, especially the skin tones, I wouldn't update it for two years.

But speaking of tires, has anybody tried Michelin Pilot S (I must like the letter S).  They're have great grip and cost less than a nikon d800.

IMO

BC

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Perhaps Pentax doesn't address pros. They perhaps happy selling to amateurs and pros shooting wildlife?

World is a bit larger than studio photography.

Best regards
Erik

From a professional viewpoint, they need to match the depth and look of a ccd, hopefully with a little higher iso.

If they can't, post work does wonders, but Pentax really, really needs to take a page out of Leica's book and make a series of smart adapters for lenses to move people from other formats, or to offer an alternative.

I bought the S2 because it didn't obsolete my contax/phase it increased their usefullness and two weeks after buying that body only, I've added a Leica lens, adapters, more batteries, screens,  . . . in other words I'm buying stuff.   Maybe not the full lens system, but it's a lot better for leica than me moving to a Nikon.

Pentax may be playing to the shoot flowers and mountains Japanese market, but they've sure missed a bet with the pros.

Pentax need a tethering suite.  Phase won't make it for them, Lightroom is ok but I'm not too sold on it being a tethering suite.

I truly don't understand the Japanese manufacturers when it comes to tethering.   Canons DPP is bulletproof but not a robust suite without the use of a second program like bridge to check focus.

Olympus as much as  I love their cameras, has zero tethering and a processing suite that makes that nikon software look intuitive. (which is almost impossible).

Note to phase one.    If you want to add some cash to the coffers that won't break into your camera market, call up the olympus boys/girls and say hey for $ _________  and if you give us you code we'll get these things tethering for you.  They could do the same for Panasonic and Leica and I promise you the person buying those cameras are not going to replace their phase backs with a 43 olympus.  Actually the big megapixel lovers aren't going to look at any camera smaller than their head for professional production.

Also note to phase.  Having to move to newer computers to run 7.0 is imo a big error.   Any professional is running multiple machines and I'm not the norm but I have 10 to 12 workstations and I'm not going to toss them in the recycle bin to use 7.0, though two unfortunatley run Maverick.

For the life of me I don't know why still software is so damn heavy.   I could run a aptus 22 all day long on an old apple 13" powerbook with v8 (ugly but effective software) and never drop a frame.  

I'm all for progress as long as it's my decision and not forced upon me, but nothing turns me off more to download a software trial and get the combined message from apple and Phase One  "throw this computer away and buy some new computers and thank you for beta testing."



IMO

BC