Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e  (Read 30022 times)

Dustbak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2442
    • Pepperanddust
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2014, 06:55:38 pm »

I use a 58/1.4 and must admit I fall more in love with it every time I use it...
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2014, 12:04:11 am »

I use a 58/1.4 and must admit I fall more in love with it every time I use it...

So I hear from every single user of the lens.

I was a bit surprised to see a significant part of the advanced LL crowd focus on technical perfection "shortcomings" (although it is a very good lens technically also) when commenting on this lens while it was obviously designed with a very different goal in mind. Sigh.  :o

Cheers,
Bernard

Dustbak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2442
    • Pepperanddust
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2014, 03:43:00 am »

Yes, I agree. This lens, initially it had me scratching my head too. It appeared to be just soft but when using it and seeing what it delivers in how images appear... it is simply gorgeous. It is the example of the real world difference between clinical sharpness and 'lens drawing personality'.

Another really nice feature is that it is so heavily corrected for light sources it is stellar when photographing directly into light. Amazing what it does at f5.6 with a flash pointed directly at it. Not directly what it has been designed for but a very welcome side-effect.
Logged

rainer_v

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1194
    • http://www.tangential.de
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2014, 07:34:52 pm »

i like to use an old olympus 50/1,4 mf lens in this way. it renders so geourgeous at 1,4, i dont have a lens in my bag which is even similar.
Logged
rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

david distefano

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2014, 10:47:09 pm »

The price of the next Hassy and Phase 50MP Cmos its just stupid...

The only two DMF brands are killing this segment with hardcore p**n prices, 35.000$ / 45.000$ for a sistem with a few lens in today profissional photo market?
35.000$ for a tuned Mamiya 645 15years old body and a larger 35mm format sensor with 1.3 crop?Huh my good this medium are mad or what???

Don´t the people see that this p**n prices are reducing the users of this systems just to few top photographer and rich amateurs?
Where is a enter level system DMF 28MP/33MP full frame for 5000/7000$ Huh THAT ITS WHAT BRINGS NEW USER TO THE MEDIUM FORMAT
The biggest advantage of the Medium Format its the large viewfinder and the DOF, i was a Hassy H3D39II user, and sold it and bought a Mamiya ZD DSLR just because i love MF DOF and Viewfinder, not megapixeis.... stop the megapixeis war, p**n prices and think about bring new user again to the MF

In my country Portugal, in 2 or 3 years i saw great number of profissional photographers leaving DMF for the D800

Its sad, very sad...

they have given the entry level price point to the d800 and the up and coming d4x and whatever number canon will use for its large mp camera. these camera's, teamed up with the zeiss otus lenses and the zeiss 135mm apo lens will not allow hasselblad or phase one to compete. look at it this way d4x $8,000 3 otus lens $12,000 zeiss 135 apo lens $2,100= about $22,000. if nikon and canon, as rumors has been implying, release these cameras with high 40's to low 50's mp sensor i believe a vast majority of photographers contemplating moving up to a mfdb will have second thoughts about making the move. so pedro, like you i would like to see a low cost entry level mfdb, the chance of that happening is nil and none.
Logged

Ken R

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2014, 11:07:02 pm »

So I hear from every single user of the lens.

I was a bit surprised to see a significant part of the advanced LL crowd focus on technical perfection "shortcomings" (although it is a very good lens technically also) when commenting on this lens while it was obviously designed with a very different goal in mind. Sigh.  :o

Cheers,
Bernard


The Canon 50L is also a lens that does not test well but in real world use it is superb. I find it just too sharp at times when used at f8 with strobes it is incredible. Obviously wide open and even at f2 it produces really nice out of focus areas and has a nice look.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2014, 01:57:12 am »

The Canon 50L is also a lens that does not test well but in real world use it is superb. I find it just too sharp at times when used at f8 with strobes it is incredible. Obviously wide open and even at f2 it produces really nice out of focus areas and has a nice look.

Yes, I have seen very sweet images shot with that lens.

Cheers,
Bernard

AreBee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2014, 07:50:50 am »

David,

Quote
...if nikon and canon, as rumors has been implying, release these cameras with high 40's to low 50's mp sensor i believe a vast majority of photographers contemplating moving up to a mfdb will have second thoughts about making the move.

With the advent of the D800 I think any objective thinking photographer already has. The subsequent release of a higher MP camera, comparable in resolution to the IQ250 but at a fraction of the cost - and it will be a fraction of the cost at whatever level the manufacturer chooses to price it - will result in fewer making a move to MFD on grounds that for them the cost of entry simply cannot be justified, and may result in a haemorrhage of photographers in the opposite direction.
Logged

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2014, 08:57:10 am »

they have given the entry level price point to the d800 and the up and coming d4x and whatever number canon will use for its large mp camera. these camera's, teamed up with the zeiss otus lenses and the zeiss 135mm apo lens will not allow hasselblad or phase one to compete. look at it this way d4x $8,000 3 otus lens $12,000 zeiss 135 apo lens $2,100= about $22,000. if nikon and canon, as rumors has been implying, release these cameras with high 40's to low 50's mp sensor i believe a vast majority of photographers contemplating moving up to a mfdb will have second thoughts about making the move. so pedro, like you i would like to see a low cost entry level mfdb, the chance of that happening is nil and none.
You forget one thing…  which is that: "The available resolution of D800/E has had a negative impact to its sales" not a positive one… There are a number of people that would prefer lower analysis, while the vast majority would prefer the "dual" version to be: D800E=36mp (as is) and D800=16mp (the current D4 sensor). In fact, Sony decided on the A7/A7R better than Nikon did, by providing different resolution cameras… The problem with this kind of thinking, is that you assume that possible customers of these cameras are buying them as an alternative to MF cameras… well, they are not!, only a few do and the volume is incosiderable to measure for DSLR makers..., what matters for them is total sales not how to satisfy some tenths (hundreds the most) of amateurs that are buying MF to maximise resolution as if this would matter to photographic quality… Besides, there are no such rumours… only posts of some lunatics in DPR that like to multiply sensor areas with respect to pixel size as if this is feasible… (which is not!).
Logged

Ken R

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2014, 09:23:27 am »

You forget one thing…  which is that: "The available resolution of D800/E has had a negative impact to its sales" not a positive one… There are a number of people that would prefer lower analysis, while the vast majority would prefer the "dual" version to be: D800E=36mp (as is) and D800=16mp (the current D4 sensor). In fact, Sony decided on the A7/A7R better than Nikon did, by providing different resolution cameras… The problem with this kind of thinking, is that you assume that possible customers of these cameras are buying them as an alternative to MF cameras… well, they are not!, only a few do and the volume is incosiderable to measure for DSLR makers..., what matters for them is total sales not how to satisfy some tenths (hundreds the most) of amateurs that are buying MF to maximise resolution as if this would matter to photographic quality… Besides, there are no such rumours… only posts of some lunatics in DPR that like to multiply sensor areas with respect to pixel size as if this is feasible… (which is not!).

Canon/Nikon can just put a lower resolution RAW mode that is still full frame as an option for those who want smaller files. Processors are fast enough to do that quickly nowadays. Phase One has that with the Sensor Plus mode in some of their backs and it is superb. 
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2014, 09:30:42 am »

Canon has had a mRaw and sRaw (medium / small) format for some time already, which came as a side effect from the video features. I think it's a great feature and I use it from time to time when I do casual hand-held photography. As far as I know Nikon has not yet introduced anything similar.
Logged

AreBee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2014, 09:50:57 am »

T.Dascalos,

Quote
The problem with this kind of thinking, is that you assume that possible customers of these cameras are buying them as an alternative to MF cameras… well, they are not!, only a few do and the volume is incosiderable to measure for DSLR makers..., what matters for them is total sales not how to satisfy some tenths (hundreds the most) of amateurs that are buying MF to maximise resolution as if this would matter to photographic quality…

The important point is not that an increase in the number of photographers to Canon/Nikon would be insignificant (albeit welcome) to the latter in terms of sales - that much is obvious - but that the corresponding decrease in the number of photographers purchasing MFD would have a disproportionate adverse effect.
Logged

synn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1235
    • My fine art portfolio
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2014, 09:53:36 am »

T.Dascalos,

The important point is not that an increase in the number of photographers to Canon/Nikon would be insignificant (albeit welcome) to the latter in terms of sales - that much is obvious - but that the corresponding decrease in the number of photographers purchasing MFD would have a disproportionate adverse effect.

The important point is that none of the people posting here except the dealers have any access to any sort of sales figures and are conjuring up whatever mental picture they see fit.
Why don't you people just give it a rest and shoot whatever you like shooting with whatever tool you like to shoot with?
Logged
my portfolio: www.sandeepmurali.com

AreBee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2014, 10:24:22 am »

Synn,

Quote
The important point is that none of the people posting here except the dealers have any access to any sort of sales figures and are conjuring up whatever mental picture they see fit. Why don't you people just give it a rest and shoot whatever you like shooting with whatever tool you like to shoot with?

I do shoot whatever I like, using whatever tool I like shooting it with. That is no reason to not engage in debate about aspects of photography that are of interest to me.

The fact that I do not have access to sales is irrelevant to the point I made in my previous post. It should be obvious that loss of sales to a small market will adversely affect it disproportionately compared to the same number of sales lost to a larger market. That products sold by MFD manufacturers are expensive relative to those sold by Canon/Nikon etc. only exacerbates the effect.
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2014, 10:30:33 am »

The important point is that none of the people posting here except the dealers have any access to any sort of sales figures and are conjuring up whatever mental picture they see fit.
Why don't you people just give it a rest and shoot whatever you like shooting with whatever tool you like to shoot with?

Actually, I was quite decently paid as a reviewer for personal computers and then photographic equipment for years. There's a bunch of people who are not dealers but for various reasons interested in industry trends, and knowledgable about various sectors.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2014, 02:49:32 pm »

David,

With the advent of the D800 I think any objective thinking photographer already has. The subsequent release of a higher MP camera, comparable in resolution to the IQ250 but at a fraction of the cost - and it will be a fraction of the cost at whatever level the manufacturer chooses to price it - will result in fewer making a move to MFD on grounds that for them the cost of entry simply cannot be justified, and may result in a haemorrhage of photographers in the opposite direction.
Actually, in contradiction to the above, very old S/H 22mp MFDBs are sold at prices directly comparable to a brand new high resolution FF DSLR of today… Surely the people that buy them (and more that use them - even pros) know why they do so... and most of the times are experienced photographers too… MO is that the "megapixel war" is long over… but to some.
Logged

AreBee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2014, 02:53:15 pm »

T.Dascalos,

Quote
Actually, in contradiction to the above...

No contradiction exists. My post related to the cost of new equipment. Yours does not.
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2014, 02:58:10 pm »

Hi,

If you think the megapixel var is over, you may check this link:

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/78-aliasing-and-supersampling-why-small-pixels-are-good

But clearly, if you prefer this:

to this

I can see the megapixel war is over.

Best regards
Erik

Actually, in contradiction to the above, very old S/H 22mp MFDBs are sold at prices directly comparable to a brand new high resolution FF DSLR of today… Surely the people that buy them (and more that use them - even pros) know why they do so... and most of the times are experienced photographers too… MO is that the "megapixel war" is long over… but to some.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2014, 03:41:14 pm »

For me 50-60 megapixels would be quite suitable in terms of resolution. For the subjects I shoot the aliasing issue is manageable, but some AA filter would probably be preferable. In the long term it's better to have a strong AA filter and have some extra pixel count to compensate loss in resolution, to avoid false colors and fake detail. As I often say a much higher priority at this point from my point of view is to increase angular response drastically, and that may lead to that pixel count must be put on hold until there is a better solution to the pixel vignetting problem.

Better angular response and the possibilities in optical design that follows can actually continue to be one of the major things that separate MF from smaller formats.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 03:44:34 pm by torger »
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Cost vs Performance: IQ250 vs D800e
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2014, 03:48:24 pm »

Hi,

I would second the idea about AA-filtering.

What I have seen small pixels with AA-filtering work better than large pixels with AA-filtering, but I understand wide angle T&S capacity is important.

With 6.8 my pixels it seems that almost all aliasing can be eliminated by stopping down to f/16, but what I have seen f/11 doesn't really help.

Best regards
Erik

For me 50-60 megapixels would be quite suitable in terms of resolution. For the subjects I shoot the aliasing issue is manageable, but some AA filter would probably be preferable. In the long term it's better to have a strong AA filter and have some extra pixel count to compensate loss in resolution, to avoid false colors and fake detail. As I often say a much higher priority at this point from my point of view is to increase angular response drastically, and that may lead to that pixel count must be put on hold.

Better angular response and the possibilities in optical design that follows can actually continue to be one of the major things that separate MF from smaller formats.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Up