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Author Topic: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...  (Read 12786 times)

aaron

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2014, 05:29:21 am »

Thanks Bill. If you do the rows I would recommend a TS lens if you have one. A rectilinear stitch could look really fantastic. I have thought about it but I have enough problems shooting these. They take up to 2 hours to shoot  :D

Enda, I haven't come across anyone using t/s lenses for nodal stitching. I assume you do mean nodal as opposed to shifting the camera with the t/s lens in a clamp?

I'd have thought it would lead to alignment issues. If not it's an interesting idea to use the Nikon 45 & 85 T/S, but I wonder why others don't as theyre good lenses.

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2014, 06:15:08 am »

Enda, I haven't come across anyone using t/s lenses for nodal stitching. I assume you do mean nodal as opposed to shifting the camera with the t/s lens in a clamp?

Hi Aaron,

I assume that Enda means combining tilt with No-Parallax-Point (NPP) rotation. A small parallax error can be introduced by tilting, due to how most lenses are designed (they do not tilt around the NPP), unless one specifically compensates for that.

I use my TS-E lenses that way to combine the benefits of a tilted focal plane, with arbitrarily (subject dictated) wide angle FOV due to stitching. Because I usually do not use the Shift capability of the lens when stitching, I can use a deeper lens hood to improve the protection against introduction of glare, and improve the individual image contrast and DR.

Shifted images require offset adjustments in the pano-stitcher which, while possible, only adds complications and no benefits. Only a single Row stitch could potentially benefit from Shift, but the perspective change made possible by shifting can also be achieved more easily by changing the projection settings in the stitcher.

Cheers,
Bart
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Enda Cavanagh

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2014, 07:52:56 am »



Sorry for the confusion guys. I don't use tilt. I do use rise though all the time.  Tilt aside from possible parallax issues (never tested this though) wouldn't work because the subject matter in my images run vertically close to the camera so the tilted plane of focus would result in areas which appear blurred.  (Haven't quite got my head around tilt TBH) I pretty much always use shift so I can tweak the composition to exactly what I want in camera. I calculate what I want in the shot on location and i don't want to crop anything out later. Shift has caused no problems what so ever. I do locate the camera so that it rotates around the point if zero parallax for the lens used. PT GUI seems to accommodate the shift. I have not tried a double row stitch. It would be a bit of a pain for me. I already shoot about 150 images for a single row. (4 different exposures x 37 to cover the entire dynamic range.) this can take up to 1 or 2 hours)  if you were to try 2 rows I would say you would have to be completely consistent with the 2 rows of images to assist the software. So say 2 rows of 37 positions in increments of 10 degrees and sticking to the 10 degree increment markings on the tripod head so that the the 2 rows are directly lining up.  I say 37 so you go to one position past 360. That way you can use PT GUI to allow you to determine where the pano starts. This dramatically improves the dynamic of the image and allows you to place the subject matter around the scene and play with the contours of the ground.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2014, 09:29:19 am »


Sorry for the confusion guys. I don't use tilt. I do use rise though all the time.  Tilt aside from possible parallax issues (never tested this though) wouldn't work because the subject matter in my images run vertically close to the camera so the tilted plane of focus would result in areas which appear blurred.  (Haven't quite got my head around tilt TBH)

Hi Enda,

For your shooting scenario and subject matter, tilt wouldn't add anything useful, indeed.

Quote
I pretty much always use shift so I can tweak the composition to exactly what I want in camera. I calculate what I want in the shot on location and i don't want to crop anything out later. Shift has caused no problems what so ever. I do locate the camera so that it rotates around the point if zero parallax for the lens used. PT GUI seems to accommodate the shift. I have not tried a double row stitch.

Yes, shift (rise/fall) works fine for a single row setup. Multiple rows get confusing for the stitcher when lens shift (rise/fall) is involved, unless the offset parameters are additionally optimized for. But with multiple row shooting, one can also apply apparent rise/fall and keep keystoning under control in postprocessing by adjusting the projection and offset settings. PTGUI Pro can handle all those just fine, with manual intervention if needed, but it's always helpful to get things right in the camera shots first.

Quote
It would be a bit of a pain for me. I already shoot about 150 images for a single row. (4 different exposures x 37 to cover the entire dynamic range.) this can take up to 1 or 2 hours)  if you were to try 2 rows I would say you would have to be completely consistent with the 2 rows of images to assist the software. So say 2 rows of 37 positions in increments of 10 degrees and sticking to the 10 degree increment markings on the tripod head so that the the 2 rows are directly lining up.  I say 37 so you go to one position past 360. That way you can use PT GUI to allow you to determine where the pano starts. This dramatically improves the dynamic of the image and allows you to place the subject matter around the scene and play with the contours of the ground.

I understand you do want to restrict yourself to a single row, and there is not much benefit making things more difficult. One already has to plan/hope that the light didn't change too much between first and last bracketed tile.

I like the shots you've shown very much.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:31:10 am by BartvanderWolf »
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aaron

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2014, 10:10:53 am »

Bart,
I think I will stick to single row panos for a while! Thanks for the suggestions. I am thinking that using a 45 t/s may allow me to shoot a pano by using the rise to eliminate some foreground as I guess tilting the camera upwards with a regular lens is not going to work for stitching..

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aaron

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2014, 10:15:47 am »


.................I already shoot about 150 images for a single row. (4 different exposures x 37 to cover the entire dynamic range.) this can take up to 1 or 2 hours)  if you were to try 2 rows I would say you would have to be completely consistent with the 2 rows of images to assist the software. So say 2 rows of 37 positions in increments of 10 degrees and sticking to the 10 degree increment markings on the tripod head so that the the 2 rows are directly lining up.  I say 37 so you go to one position past 360. That way you can use PT GUI to allow you to determine where the pano starts. This dramatically improves the dynamic of the image and allows you to place the subject matter around the scene and play with the contours of the ground.


Enda that sounds like quite the task! Changing light must be a problem? Even on a very overcast day you must have light levels changing over a couple of hours, do you adjust exposure as you go?
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Enda Cavanagh

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2014, 11:37:44 am »

Hi Enda,

For your shooting scenario and subject matter, tilt wouldn't add anything useful, indeed.

Yes, shift (rise/fall) works fine for a single row setup. Multiple rows get confusing for the stitcher when lens shift (rise/fall) is involved, unless the offset parameters are additionally optimized for. But with multiple row shooting, one can also apply apparent rise/fall and keep keystoning under control in postprocessing by adjusting the projection and offset settings. PTGUI Pro can handle all those just fine, with manual intervention if needed, but it's always helpful to get things right in the camera shots first.


I don't have to correct for distortion with the Schneiders so I presume PT GUI would make a better stab at it. The problem with the Hasselblad is it can only really go to ISO 100 before noise makes the images unusable. This equates to the longest exposure going up to 90 seconds at 50 iso on a cloudy day to fill in the shadow areas in a forest. A DSLR could shoot at much higher iso, speeding up the whole process significantly. Plus probably larger apertures because of the increased depth of field. PLUS I have to count out each exposure time in my head because most exposures are longer than 1 second after which I have to use bulb!! PLUS I have to cock the shutter. With a DSLR you can set it to bracket. I do love doing it though. I find it almost hypnotic  :D


I understand you do want to restrict yourself to a single row, and there is not much benefit making things more difficult. One already has to plan/hope that the light didn't change too much between first and last bracketed tile.

I like the shots you've shown very much.

Cheers,
Bart


Enda that sounds like quite the task! Changing light must be a problem? Even on a very overcast day you must have light levels changing over a couple of hours, do you adjust exposure as you go?

Especially when in Ireland ;D Not an easy task. You just have to have consistent light, whether it be cloudy(like the black and white pano I showed) or sunny, or at least with descent breaks in the cloud where you can take your shots during the sunny periods. With the forest shots you don't have much sky in shot but you can't have sunlight for one shot and cloud for the next with no shadows. It would be a nightmare to stitch and would look weird to say the least. If the sun is getting a bit low in the sky and you think you might be a bit tight for time in an evening, than start the pano to the left of the sun and make sure that it's a shaded area if possible. You than work your way around and by the time you get to the finish point where the sun is now behind the trees you finish up back at the shaded area. Again easier stitching and more realistic results.

One important factor with the forest panos is wind. The less the better for obvious reasons. It doesn't matter if there is some movement in the leaves. In fact it adds a dream like character to the images but just make sure that branches are not moving as this causes issues for stitching which can prove very difficult if impossible to correct.

One very helpful tip is to remember that only a tiny section of each image will be taken for the stitch. This allows for sun shading to the sides as you rotate the camera except for where the sun is in the middle of the shot or in the neighboring 20% to each side. Flare is a real issue when shooting with a view camera. I just got the Dinkum Systems sun shade. I was using the flare buster but the blood thing flops when it's windy. So it kept popping into the shot and of course it also caused vibration. The dinkum systems sun shade is built like a tank.

.

 

Peter McLennan

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2014, 03:41:43 pm »

The poor man's Otus: the 55mm Micro Nikkor f2.8 AIS.  I love it, it's perfection.  And it doesn't weigh a ton.

Bill and I are in agreement that this is one of the best values in the Nikkor lens world.  Use it horizontally or vertically and you have good FOV flexibility and astounding resolving power.  Usually less than $300 on KEH.com.
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aaron

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2014, 04:07:20 pm »

Bill and I are in agreement that this is one of the best values in the Nikkor lens world.  Use it horizontally or vertically and you have good FOV flexibility and astounding resolving power.  Usually less than $300 on KEH.com.

I have the Nikon AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D which I think was the succesor to your 55, it's also an amazingly sharp lens and seems distortion free as best as I can tell, I think it should work very well for panoramas....
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dgberg

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2014, 07:43:12 pm »

Little late to the party but my most used pano lens on my D800E is the Zeiss 100 F/2.
Second favorite is my Nikon 200 F/2 ( When far enough away.)
Both are just so sharp and boy do the images look great printed large.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2014, 07:36:13 am »

I have the Nikon AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D which I think was the succesor to your 55, it's also an amazingly sharp lens and seems distortion free as best as I can tell, I think it should work very well for panoramas....

At least my copy of the Nikkor 60mm f2.8 had a lot of light fall off even stopped down. This can be corrected better nowadays, but the slightest non corrected light fall off can ruin skies. It convinced me to move to the Zeiss 50mm f2.0.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2014, 07:37:17 am »

Little late to the party but my most used pano lens on my D800E is the Zeiss 100 F/2.
Second favorite is my Nikon 200 F/2 ( When far enough away.)
Both are just so sharp and boy do the images look great printed large.

If I may ask, what pano head do you support the 200mm f2.0 with?

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2014, 04:42:50 pm »

For my part I use my Arca Swiss 4D as pano head. When I feel it is motivated I add an RRS multipurpose rail as a nodal slider. The D4 can be panned at both bottom and top, I generally pan at bottom. I have leveling head below for easy setup.

Works nice, but a bit on the heavy side.

Best regards
Erik


If I may ask, what pano head do you support the 200mm f2.0 with?

Cheers,
Bernard
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Lightsmith

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Re: D800 Nodal Panoramics - lens suggestions...
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2014, 02:30:20 am »

It seems counterproductive to use a wide angle lens for panoramic composite images. The wider the lens the less image magnification there is and that means less visible detail in the print. I use the Nikon 105mm f2, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm zoom lenses depending upon the situation. Only difficulty with the zooms is having different nodal settings depending upon the focal length setting that is used.

The Really Right Stuff PG-02 Omni Pivot easily handles the weight of the camera with the 70-200mm lens for doing multiple row panos.
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