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Author Topic: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)  (Read 15320 times)

David Sutton

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"What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« on: December 23, 2013, 03:03:52 pm »

The approach of Christmas. They say you can hear the dismal cash-register lullaby from afar on a moonless night when the chill winds from the fens stalk the living.
Hmm, this time of year puts me in a strange mood. Here's another thing that does it: the question "What is art?". It shows its face immediately after the question "is this art?" (often referring to some new fashion).
Talk about this in a forum and see how soon someone posts "define art". Make no mistake, this is an attempt to shut down the discussion. I used to reply "don't be such a lazy fellow, look it up yourself". Now I just write: define "define". Though I think these criminals miss the fact that I am really asking them to POQ. Never mind, art is a spirit that lives in the heart and touches everything that its possessor does, whether it is carving a sculpture or making dinner. Some have it and some don't, and the two will probably never understand each other. Which is as it should be, else the world loses its balance.
Perhaps this is one underlying reason for the futility of questioning whether something is art. Why would I raise such a question when the real consideration should be "is this good art?" This has more meaning for me. Alas sometimes we need go no further than look at the artist's statement to arrive at the answer "no, it isn't”. Artist's statements are often the first step on the road to perdition and need to be treated circumspectly. Some have made me want to place a Welsh mass choir outside the gallery singing "Stand on your head and fall through your arse" to the tune of "Toréador, en garde" from Carmen. Excuse the vulgarity but the medical version "Stand on your cranium and fall through your gluteus maximus" lacks the Anglo Saxon bluntness.
Sometimes I get past that “front door” to find the work leaves me fairly cold but I admire it as art in a sort of abstract way. I know that sounds odd but it can't be helped. The work of  Oscar Rejlander or Andreas Gursky comes to mind.
And sometimes I enter an exhibition and fall speechless to the floor.

When we begin to photograph there are so many technical hurdles to cross we often forget to enjoy the process and just work with what we have, mastering that. The real issues we will face will have nothing to do with whether we have learned all about blend modes. A colour managed workflow, Photoshop, Lightroom and the like are just useful tools but if treated as ends in themselves make us complacent. They become the enemy of our art. In the end we have throw our bodies at our work and find our own solutions. Sometimes when I see a post “my prints are coming out too dark” I want to reply “WELL STOP IT!”

When you learn to decipher something of the artist through their work, all sorts of doors open. A painter shows his character with the placement and intensity of each brushstroke. Likewise, listening to a solo musician, each stroke of the fingers clearly bypasses their reputation to reveal their true character. Every brush stroke, every note, speaks of the person who created it. Some works  have been difficult and achieved through pain and suffering. Then that's what they really are about and when looking or listening to them we apprehend that and flee the room.
When the struggle we have with turning our inner vision into an outer reality becomes a joyous one it too shows. People respond.
I've tended to focus on landscapes because I find them so hard. Weird, I know. In the end when we photograph or paint landscapes we can't escape being who we are and our notions of the thing we are looking at. And it shows the moment we press the shutter or make our first sketch. Look at the role of landscape images in the formation of national identity or the process of political legitimation. This is the meaning behind "we are the landscape"
For me the hardest thing is working out what an image is about. A common mistake people make is thinking the object photographed is the subject of the work. Take this photograph of Corfe castle.



I was standing on the hillside nearby talking to another photographer. He was on leave from serving in Afghanistan, and roaming the mountains alone with a camera for two weeks was his way of regaining his sanity. He explained how the castle was besieged from the valley floor, just outside of canon range. "The peril of taking a entrenched position" I commented. "Tell me about it!" he said. I shall never forget that look in his eyes as he replied. That's what this image is about. Taking an entrenched position. Complacency.
Now I still do landscape but sometimes it takes a different form. Here is a landscape from a few weeks ago, and the subject is still about complacency.



Knowing it was made in a city flattened by an earthquake should make it easy to decipher.
I realise that over the last year I have become happy with my use of Photoshop, and my intuition has warned me about complacency. Now I understand that selling all my Canon gear and my shift to Fuji has been about making myself uncomfortable enough to attempt new things and pushing myself to make what I have work. That's probably behind my taking 100 year old film cameras to the Antarctic on the centenary of Amundsen reaching the pole. It's behind my terror of never producing a work that polarises its onlookers. How cool to make an image that so divides its viewers that its supporters and opponents take to each other with cudgels in front of it. I'd rather fall on my face than live a life of safety. The creation of beauty is not the same as beautiful subject matter! Think of Turner's “The Burning of the Houses of Lords and Commons”, or Munch's “The Scream of Nature”. Oh to make some images that have force. Let there be some blood on the floor in front of our work.
Enough with the pretty pictures! Burn your bridges! Live in terror! You only have one life to live. Go out and chew the scenery.

D
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WalterEG

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 05:15:12 pm »

David,

I trudge my way daily to Lu-La, scroll through the sub-forum listings of new posts and 'Mark As Read' the vast majority of the posts without ever opening them.  Every day, I ask myself, 'Why bother?'  Dross and egotistical rantings by wannabes and neverwheres bore the tits off me.  In earlier days of forum life I used to express my indignity that what used to get shoved into a shoe box under the bed is now paraded globally in a cavalcade of tedium which I actually find insulting — a capricious exploitation of whatever remnants of 'do unto others ....' might still lurk within.

This post of yours, for me, is the gold at the end of the rainbow.  This post is the rare gem that justifies an entire year of optimism.'

Thank you for this timely restoration of my faith that there are some out there with a wonderful contribution to offer.

Seasonal blessings,

Walter
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David Sutton

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 01:51:54 am »

Bless you Walter. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
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Rob C

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2013, 04:52:07 am »

David, aren't you in danger of buying into, and then perpetuating the very "artists' statements" that you originally shrank from in justifiable terror?

It's one thing someone actually articulating a reason for the making of his shot, and something far else for an uninformed (not meaning dumb) viewer to be able to reach similar conclusions about the nature of the image. We are all brilliant when we already hold the keys. And don't forget: when some authors become famous, they actually change the locks!

Swapping camera systems in order to rekindle enthusiasm is no new trick: but I usually do it more cheaply by buying another lens. Maybe the greatest such change I undertook was my venture into digital: at a stroke, there was no need to think about film and E6 costs any more, and the ending of Kodachrome meant the route of first and last resort had been closed too. Where no financial waste is measurable, there remain no real reasons to prevent experimentation, and wasted time is also of little import when it all gets wasted anyway.

;-)

Rob C

Rocco Penny

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2013, 08:55:49 am »


... and wasted time is also of little import when it all gets wasted anyway.

;-)Rob C

gulp
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Rob C

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mezzoduomo

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 01:55:41 pm »

David,

I trudge my way daily to Lu-La, scroll through the sub-forum listings of new posts and 'Mark As Read' the vast majority of the posts without ever opening them.  Every day, I ask myself, 'Why bother?'  Dross and egotistical rantings by wannabes and neverwheres bore the tits off me.  In earlier days of forum life I used to express my indignity that what used to get shoved into a shoe box under the bed is now paraded globally in a cavalcade of tedium which I actually find insulting — a capricious exploitation of whatever remnants of 'do unto others ....' might still lurk within.

This post of yours, for me, is the gold at the end of the rainbow.  This post is the rare gem that justifies an entire year of optimism.'

Thank you for this timely restoration of my faith that there are some out there with a wonderful contribution to offer.

Seasonal blessings,

Walter

Well said, Walter. And, incredibly well said....Mr. Sutton.
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Iluvmycam

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 02:21:31 pm »

It's all BS guys. You don't need to justify a damn thing...just keep on shooting. You want reasons, excuses and justification...read Susan Sontag. All others keep pressing the button!
 
You want to know what art is?

Throw a 4 x 6 of one of your pix on the sidewalk. If someone picks it up and puts it in their pocket it is art.

OP, here is a xmas present for you.

http://pocketportfolio.tumblr.com/

Print one up, as dark as you like. Show your pictures  and spread your art wherever you go!

Good luck!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 02:26:55 pm by iluvmycam »
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Rob C

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2013, 03:48:09 pm »

It's all BS guys. You don't need to justify a damn thing...just keep on shooting. You want reasons, excuses and justification...read Susan Sontag. All others keep pressing the button!
 




Read the 'essay' once somewhere; funny how non-photographers are eventually accepted as seers in the matter of snapping and snappers. Wish I knew if it came pre- or post-Annie. Frankly that's a fib: I don't really care at all, one way or the other.

I suppose, though, that it explains the phenomenon of photographic curatorship.

Rob C

David Sutton

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2013, 12:02:25 am »

Rob, the wonderful thing about artists' statements is that they show unequivocally whether the artist is capable of thought and therefore expression. They can save us a lot of time which we can then waste on something that won't annoy us. Today I've been wasting my time sitting with friends in the middle of nowhere cooking poached eggs on a camp stove, serving them with wild sorrel  and discussing how to photograph the shadows in the mountains. Quite satisfactory.
Thanks to all for looking and commenting.
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Rob C

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2013, 03:58:17 am »

Rob, the wonderful thing about artists' statements is that they show unequivocally whether the artist is capable of thought and therefore expression. They can save us a lot of time which we can then waste on something that won't annoy us. Today I've been wasting my time sitting with friends in the middle of nowhere cooking poached eggs on a camp stove, serving them with wild sorrel  and discussing how to photograph the shadows in the mountains. Quite satisfactory.
Thanks to all for looking and commenting.


I could quite enjoy wasting some of my own time with your group cooking in the wilds!

I think I have the best, and certainly the most honest artist's statement of them all. And to think that I actually wrote it all by myself!

;-)

Merry Christmas, David.

Rob C

RSL

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 09:22:39 am »

. . . funny how non-photographers are eventually accepted as seers in the matter of snapping and snappers.

Easy, Rob. You might hurt Isaac's feelings.
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petermfiore

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 09:39:47 am »

the wonderful thing about artists' statements is that they show unequivocally whether the artist is capable of thought and therefore expression.


Funny, I only look at an artist's work. That is how i judge whether the artist is capable of thought and expression. At that point if I like the work I will read their statement...

Peter

Isaac

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 05:12:03 pm »

Here's another thing that does it: the question "What is art?". It shows its face immediately after the question "is this art?" (often referring to some new fashion).
Talk about this in a forum and see how soon someone posts "define art". Make no mistake, this is an attempt to shut down the discussion. I used to reply "don't be such a lazy fellow, look it up yourself".

Someone might respond with "define art" simply to understand what you mean and avoid misunderstanding. Aren't you the "lazy fellow" for not bothering to point to a definition that makes sense to you?

Art is a self-expressive form of social action, a type of communication (paraphrased from The Artist's Reality: Philosophies of Art).
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RSL

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 07:22:05 pm »

. . .Aren't you the "lazy fellow" for not bothering to point to a definition that makes sense to you?

Sorry Isaac, but there IS no definition of art that "makes sense." It's all subjective. One man's definition is another man's gibberish.

Try posting some of your pictures. Pictures always make more sense than half-assed definitions.
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Isaac

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 07:34:12 pm »

...Aren't you the "lazy fellow" for not bothering to point to a definition that makes sense to you?

Sorry Isaac, but there IS no definition of art that "makes sense." It's all subjective. One man's definition is another man's gibberish.

Try posting some of your pictures. Pictures always make more sense than half-assed definitions.


We can all see that what I wrote - "makes sense to you" - fully acknowledged it would be David Sutton's definition, that would be the point of asking him what he meant.

Try thinking.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 07:36:10 pm by Isaac »
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Rob C

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2013, 04:49:03 am »

This site is getting more depressing by the day.

Rob C

Ray

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 09:20:51 pm »

Sorry Isaac, but there IS no definition of art that "makes sense." It's all subjective. One man's definition is another man's gibberish.

Try posting some of your pictures. Pictures always make more sense than half-assed definitions.

Russ,
The definition of art has to make sense because it's a word in the language. If it doesn't make sense, why use the word? The fact that opinions are subjective doesn't change the need for a basic defintion.
For example, what is 'hot' regarding the weather? Experiences of comfort and discomfort will vary depending on the individuals' constitution and what they are accustomed to.  An Eskimo visiting a relative in England might find it bloody hot, whereas another person who is used to the climate in Singapore would find the same weather in England uncomfortably cold. However, there should be no disagreement about the actual temperature.

I'll propose a broad definition of art, because I always try to make sense when I write or speak.  ;)

A work of art is the creation of any object for non-utilitarian purpose, that has resulted from the application of human skill.

By non-utilitarian, I mean, without regard to utility. By utility, I mean the quality of practical usefulness and serviceability.

I'm sure someone can find exceptions that our outside of such a definition.  ;)

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RSL

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2014, 08:24:58 am »

So since it has a utilitarian purpose architecture isn't art?
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Alan Klein

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Re: "What is art?" (With a nod to Robert Henri)
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2014, 08:57:57 am »

I think Ray is referring to visual arts where there is mainly an aesthetic value.  Of course there are Performing Arts (ie dancing, singing, music) and functional arts like architecture or let's say a knife that is beautifully carved.  I think there has to be an asethetic value though in it to make it art.
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