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Author Topic: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?  (Read 31571 times)

deanwork

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2014, 10:30:59 am »

On the Canon I don't use any color inks for printing grays, out of TBW,  like is necessary with Epson pigments.

Yes, it seems like the Epson HDR has the edge in gamut in some lighter hues while the Canon an edge in some of the darker hues from those comparison tests a few years ago.

You're totally right, the quality of the profile is critical. If you use X-Rite and a custom, something like 2,600 patches you will see something quite different that trying to use a generic profile from the paper manufacturer. Also a good recent linearization of the Canon is important. With the newer Epson HDR inks using orange and green there is a greater potential color gamut, and you can see it with color think, there is no question it is more expanded and the best out there, but in practical daily photographic usage they are so close it's really not an issue for what I do, even with painting reproductions on canvas. I've never found any photographic color that I couldn't match, but there might be one out there somewhere :-) .

john
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 10:39:32 am by deanwork »
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2014, 12:02:55 pm »

I prefer the 6100 on more images than the 3880 - it varies by image, with the 6100 superior on darker tones, especially blues and the 3880 better in lighter and warmer tones.

Is this with the manufacturer's profile, or is it with a custom profile? My limited experience with Canon is that many of the profiles they provide for their own paper isn't nearly as good as a custom profile. Many of the profiles they provide for other manufacturers paper are of much higher quality. Rather odd, I think.
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2014, 12:07:32 pm »

but in practical daily photographic usage they are so close it's really not an issue for what I do, even with painting reproductions on canvas. I've never found any photographic color that I couldn't match, but there might be one out there somewhere :-) .

john
We have both the Epson 11880 and some x900 printers, and it's easy to see a difference with images containing larger areas of green if you print the same image on both printers. Landscape images with saturated green colours is better reproduced on the x900 printers.
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deanwork

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2014, 05:05:27 pm »

Even though the Canon and HP printers  have their own separate green channels from the two cyans and for me do an excellent job, the yellow on the Epson printers is stronger and influences a lot of greens as well.The problem with that is that the yellow is the weakest link by far in their stability, which is dragging down the Epson permanence ratings. If they had a yellow that wasn't quite as intense they could probably reach the Canon Lucia inks in permanence ( but never the HP Vivera ).

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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2014, 04:08:06 am »

Even though the Canon and HP printers  have their own separate green channels from the two cyans and for me do an excellent job, the yellow on the Epson printers is stronger and influences a lot of greens as well.The problem with that is that the yellow is the weakest link by far in their stability, which is dragging down the Epson permanence ratings. If they had a yellow that wasn't quite as intense they could probably reach the Canon Lucia inks in permanence ( but never the HP Vivera ).


That is one of the reasons I like ImagePrint's profile, where they have tried to minimize the use of the yellow ink and orange and green ink is used instead.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2014, 10:21:33 am »

Not just the green, but also the orange, play a role in landscape images on the 7900. I can see an easy improvement over the 3880 and x100 generation Canons in just about every image (but especially images with bright oranges or greens, of course), and, contrary to some reports, the orange and green inks see significant use. For me, the high-use ink by a wide margin is Light Black, and the low-use inks are the "dark" cyan and magenta (their light equivalents see a lot of use). The improved nozzle density and dither is also noticeable - 7900 images just look slightly sharper than older printers' output - I really wish I had significant experience with x300 or x400 Canons to compare it to. I think the recent Canons also improved the dither pattern, and, while they didn't add inks, they are supposed to have done quite a bit with the gamut by improving several of them.
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Some Guy

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2014, 04:22:03 pm »

I was just reading a current blog out of one of LA's largest paper suppliers.  Food for thought.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/industry-snapshot/2014/december

SG
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jferrari

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2014, 08:21:06 pm »

Wow! A Canon commercial from someone that sells Canon! Well I'll be!!!
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uaiomex

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2014, 09:13:58 pm »

The no-switch blacks is reason enough to switch. I am so tired of this on the Epsons.
Eduardo
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alan a

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2014, 08:02:56 pm »

Repair an Epson or buy a Canon?  I really do need some advice and counsel from all of you.  Any comments would be greatly appreciated.  Apologies for the length of this posting.

I own an Epson 7900.  My current problem is that I have very light horizontal banding in LL Black, that shows up most clearly on shades of white or gray, for example, prints of water falls or darker clouds.  Also notice it on light blues like ice caves.  On the nozzle check, it shows up as 4 to 6 small gaps in the faint lines on the second block from the right.  All other ink colors are perfect in the nozzle check. I have done numerous power cleanings, and in the service menu, done level 4 on LL Black.  None of that knocks out the banding.  The problem is also intermittent.  When the 7900 is first turned on, it can sometimes run a clear nozzle check, but after 3 or 4 prints, the banding returns, and no amount of cleaning can knock it out.  I called Epson Prographics support.  The Epson support technician told me it sounds like the head.  A repair call would be $275 minimum for labor.  If it is the head, it is an additional $1,132.  That would be close to $1,500 -- half the price of a new printer.  When I talked to the company that does the repairs in Washington DC/Maryland, the scheduler said "only a 50-50 chance it is the head" and said a cap would affect more than one color.  The scheduler guessed it may be the "selector unit" (which includes the damper?) and is $175.  I scheduled a repair visit but that won't happen until early next week.  If it is the selector unit, for an additional $175, I might do that.  If it is the head, for a total of $1500, well that is half the price of a new printer, and might be throwing  good money after bad, from the perspective of an amateur coping with the frustrating ink clogs of Epson.  (Ironically, I also put in a new set of ink to try to narrow the problem, and we know what that costs.  If any of you Epson owners want to buy a new set of cartridges, based on the expiration date and % left in each one, I may be selling a set.)

If it is the head, and I decline and just pay the labor for the diagnosis, that would mean a new printer.  I am an advanced amateur and not a professional and may not notice the subtle color differences between Canon and Epson reported on in this thread.  I do not use the printer every day, and the above problem might have been caused because I did not turn the 7900 on for months due to other demands at my real job.  (Before you all chastise me, I now realize that whether it is Canon or Epson, it is best to power it up, and run a few prints through it ever week.  I have learned that lesson the hard way.)  My guess is that you will all agree that Epsons, with clogs, may have not been the best choice for me.  That leaves Canon, as I have ruled out HP since those are discontinued.  I print on rolls 90% of the time, so the aggravation reported here of loading sheets on the Canons would not be that large an issue for me.  Some reported in this thread that Canon can't handle really thick media, but I assume it can deal with sheets of Exhibition Fiber, to use an example, without any problems.  I also print on canvas, and I assume Canon is fine for that.  (And apparently has some feature related to gallery wraps?)  My impression is that Canon does not switch between photo and matte black ink, so that particular Epson problem does not exist?

I am frankly confused by the models, so welcome input from Canon owners.  B&H said that the iPF6400 is better for photo printing, as it has 12 color ink, at $1900, versus the more expensive iPF6400S that has only 8 colors of ink but costs more at $2845.  The B&H staff said that the difference is the hard drive in the 6400S, but it is inferior for printing photos. B&H said it is counter-intuitive, but the cheaper printer is better for photo printing.  The iPF6450 is $3500, for 12 inks and the hard drive. But the actual print quality between the 6400 and 6450 is the same??

Now, for the final dilemma, that I only discovered tonight.  If I buy before December 31 -- and before the repair guy shows up -- I can save $500 on Canon printers on the B&H web site.  (Two separate rebates that total $500.)  That means that the 6400 would be $1400.  That causes me to really consider cutting my losses, and not even attempting to determine the problem with the Epson, and stop spending money on it.  I can always sell the ink cartridges on craigs list, and maybe someone will give me a few hundred bucks for an Epson printer with an undiagnosed problem.

Advice, anyone?  
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 08:06:27 pm by alan a »
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Landscapes

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2014, 08:47:06 pm »

Now, for the final dilemma, that I only discovered tonight.  If I buy before December 31 -- and before the repair guy shows up -- I can save $500 on Canon printers on the B&H web site.  (Two separate rebates that total $500.)  That means that the 6400 would be $1400.  That causes me to really consider cutting my losses, and not even attempting to determine the problem with the Epson, and stop spending money on it.  I can always sell the ink cartridges on craigs list, and maybe someone will give me a few hundred bucks for an Epson printer with an undiagnosed problem.


This is a tough one.  I don't know much about the problems you are having, but it sure sounds like it could be the head, and worst of all, not knowing what it is means that even after all that money you could still have a lemon on your hands.  I personally would just get a new iPF6400.. What you need is the photo version, the 6400, not the 6450 with the hard drive or the one with only 8 colors since that is more for printing signs and stuff.  To get that extra $200 off you need to own a very recent Canon DSLR, but maybe you do so if this is the case, go with BH.

I'm surprised it says out of stock though... so just go with Itsupplies.com if the $@00 rebate doesn't apply to you.  Its free shipping and I got mine from there as well just a couple of week ago actually.  Same price of $1900 minus the $300 mail in rebate (its not even mail-in... I did it all online and it was approved in one day).  Otherwise, its really too much money to throw at a printer that isn't guaranteed to work.  I just don't know about the service for these printers where basically they just randomly replace stuff at your cost and hope something fixes the the problem.  That kind of service is pathetic.  As you say, you can also work with Matte Black and Photo Black at the same time. I really have no idea why anyone buys the Epson printers.  Its even cheaper on ink and if you ever have a head problem, you can fix it yourself by buying replacement heads.  The prints are gorgeous, and although there might be some tiny advantage with the dither pattern on the 7900 vs the 6100, I think things are much more improved on the 6400 and almost everyone says the prints are gorgeous, so quality is no issue.  What separates these printers is reliability and user experience, and the Canon is ahead on both fronts.
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Paris1968

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2014, 03:31:15 pm »

Get the Canon, and don't look back. Really, stop fussing, the Canon at that price is a fantastic deal. Although you can see from my earlier posts that I favor Epson over the Canon because the Epson is easier for me to load cut sheets, the roll paper transport is better, and it has a slight quality edge, the differences are not that great.  I think the quality difference is so slight, that if I did not have them both and could compare prints side by side, I would never spot it. I dread the day, and I know it's coming, that I need a service call to clear a clog with the Epson.  The Canon, OTOH, is exceptionally reliable. My only concern is that I am waiting for a 6500 to come out, and I am guessing that it will be soon.  When it does, I'll buy it.
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pcgpcg

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2014, 04:22:51 pm »

That means that the 6400 would be $1400...

Advice, anyone?  
Jump on that!  That is a huge bargain.  I have a 6400 and love it. I have no problem loading cut sheets or rolls, although I have no experience with other large format printers to compare ease of use in that area.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:25:07 pm by pcgpcg »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2014, 06:02:19 pm »

if its in the budget, buy once, get a 36"+ :-)
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stockjock

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2014, 08:41:20 pm »


I am frankly confused by the models, so welcome input from Canon owners.  B&H said that the iPF6400 is better for photo printing, as it has 12 color ink, at $1900, versus the more expensive iPF6400S that has only 8 colors of ink but costs more at $2845.  The B&H staff said that the difference is the hard drive in the 6400S, but it is inferior for printing photos. B&H said it is counter-intuitive, but the cheaper printer is better for photo printing.  The iPF6450 is $3500, for 12 inks and the hard drive. But the actual print quality between the 6400 and 6450 is the same??

Now, for the final dilemma, that I only discovered tonight.  If I buy before December 31 -- and before the repair guy shows up -- I can save $500 on Canon printers on the B&H web site.  (Two separate rebates that total $500.)  That means that the 6400 would be $1400.  That causes me to really consider cutting my losses, and not even attempting to determine the problem with the Epson, and stop spending money on it.  I can always sell the ink cartridges on craigs list, and maybe someone will give me a few hundred bucks for an Epson printer with an undiagnosed problem.

Advice, anyone?  


I didn't face the quandary of having a non-performing 7900 but I have decided I want to start printing bigger than my much loved Epson 3880 can handle.  I would have preferred to have stayed with Epson but the MANY stories of clogged printers that needed huge repair bills dissuaded me.  Plus "sale" prices and the rebates on the Canon iPF6400 and iPF8400 are simply too good to pass up right not.  Since I have the space, I opted for the iPF8400.  The deciding factor for me was that it comes with the full 330ml ink cartridges rather than the 90ml starter cartridges on the iPF6400.  That is something like $1400 of ink included which makes the iPF8400  so close to the price of the iPF6400 as to not matter.  The best prices I found were from Lexjet but Shades of Paper was willing to match it.  Bottom line was $3799 - 800 = 2999 for a 44" printer that will be much less hassle than the Epson.  No brainer in my book.  But you only have one day to make up your mind LOL.  And ignore the 8 ink S versions if you are printing photos.  And the iPF6450 is really designed for large print shops that need to match colors between printers.  Another benefit of the iPF8400 is it comes standard with the hard drive that is in the iPF6450.   Printer comes Monday.  Fingers crossed I made a good choice LOL.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2014, 09:18:29 pm »

That is a great deal! I would have purchased this $2999 Canon 8400 deal over my z3200/44"  I got recently (I know they may disco the models, but I hope to get 10years out of it).
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stockjock

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2014, 10:14:21 pm »

That is a great deal! I would have purchased this $2999 Canon 8400 deal over my z3200/44"  I got recently (I know they may disco the models, but I hope to get 10years out of it).


I'll be honest, I never even evaluated the HP printers.  I know HP claims to have the most archival inks and less gloss differential but the printer was quite a bit more expensive, especially when you took into account the size of the introductory ink cartridges which I think were only 69 ml.  What were the pros over the Canon in your mind?
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2014, 10:52:29 pm »

Yes, he first set are 69ml. 130ml is available for about $30-45. I think because I had an HP Desinjet before. They are built rather solid. So I am familiar with it to some degree. Also each print head is 2 inks for under $30. $180 replaces all of them. But these prices are more for expired goods, which I don't like HP pushing at. I wonder if Canon has such expiration on the head and inks?!

There are brand specific nuances that are within all models, so I felt a bit less intimidated with a new brand of printer entirely. Sounds odd, but I didn't want a complete new learning experience with a project on my plate. (never mind the delay I'm experiencing now with my belt issue!)....
I had to dive right into printing. Also my printer came with a lot of media/inks, so it was a bit of a deal, and perhaps I may have still made this purchase..but if it were from retail printer to printer price, The Canon would be my choice.

Having said that, one point about the Canon that comes to mind....on some forum I ran into a few threads regarding the prints coming out with markings on the back of the print. This is from more than 1 new unit at least one person was experiencing. Regardless, I would take either one over the headaches I have had with Epson. I have not looked for info on Canon, but haven't come across such issue here on LL.

I don't know the quality differences for print between the 3 comparatively, but I have noticed in the posts often Epson 7x prints compared to Canon ipf6400, while HP is out of the loop. Perhaps it is not a contender on the others level?

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tsjanik

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2014, 11:03:36 pm »

I'll be honest, I never even evaluated the HP printers.  I know HP claims to have the most archival inks and less gloss differential but the printer was quite a bit more expensive, especially when you took into account the size of the introductory ink cartridges which I think were only 69 ml.  What were the pros over the Canon in your mind?

Pro imaging has the 8400 for $2895 after rebate.  The printer includes about $1950 of ink; if I had room for an 8400, I would go that route.  I'll be buying a 6400 for $1599 net.   They also have the HPZ3200 44" for $2799.   
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2014, 11:22:16 pm »

With that price of $2999 for the 44"...and even the HP being 2799....
I really could have held off on my timing. AND that 330ml ink size on the Canon is a super plus.
The only reason I could see is the $30~ print head vs the $450 for a print head.

I wonder how the speed is for the 8400 vs the HP Z3200? (or a 24" to 24" test)
I also wonder if there has been any direct image file to file tests of which printer uses more ink? but image quality would have to be in the comparison if one was noticeably better.  I have heard the HP BW prints are more neutral vs Canon maybe hard to profile for BW(?)

Here is the marketing on speed from Canon..."In highest print mode, the order of ink application and layering is optimized to maintain the highest print quality with fewer passes, making this mode twice as fast compared to previous models".

After these variables are ironed out for your individual need, at some point you just go with your gut and jump in the water.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 12:02:13 am by Phil Indeblanc »
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