Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Help me understand "gamut warning."  (Read 1846 times)

robgo2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 388
    • Robert Goldstein Photography
Help me understand "gamut warning."
« on: November 21, 2013, 11:41:23 pm »

If I am soft proofing an image in Photoshop, and I am using the appropriate paper profile for my printer, why does the gamut warning sometimes show areas that are out of gamut?  Isn't the image on my monitor supposed to represent the actual colors that will be printed on the paper?  Is the gamut warning simply informing me which colors in the original image file will not fit in the output gamut, and if so, is this purely for informational purposes, or is there something that I can do to expand the colors in the print?

Rob
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 01:23:44 am »

It's really only informational...I personally don't bother with gamut warning because, well I really only care about the appearance of the image as it will look like on the print, not what colors are in the image that can't print.
Logged

DeanChriss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 592
    • http://www.dmcphoto.com
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 06:05:39 am »

If I am soft proofing an image in Photoshop, and I am using the appropriate paper profile for my printer, why does the gamut warning sometimes show areas that are out of gamut?
Because, given the printer/paper/profile you are using the colors in the out of gamut areas are beyond the range of your printer/paper/profile to reproduce.

Isn't the image on my monitor supposed to represent the actual colors that will be printed on the paper?
It does, but in the out of gamut areas there may be details that are present in the image file but missing in print, and on the monitor in those out of gamut areas, assuming everything is properly calibrated. For instance, in a very saturated sunset you may have some out of gamut areas in the sky. If you bring those areas back within the gamut, details that were present in the file but previously not visible may appear. Suppose there is shading in a cloud that defines a contour within it. Every part of that gradient that is beyond the gamut will be the same color - i.e., the color "blocks up" in the out of gamut area. Without the warning to point this out you might not realize there was anything missing.

Is the gamut warning simply informing me which colors in the original image file will not fit in the output gamut, and if so, is this purely for informational purposes, or is there something that I can do to expand the colors in the print?
Rob
One option is to bring colors back into the gamut you have. That can often be done by locally or globally desaturating the image slightly and/or darkening the image slightly. Another option is to expand the gamut to allow a wider range of color by using a different paper and profile. For instance, a color that is out of gamut on a mat paper may well be within the much wider gamut of a  paper like Ilford GFS or Canson Baryta Photographique, assuming a proper profile for each paper.
Logged
- Dean

robgo2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 388
    • Robert Goldstein Photography
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 01:24:15 pm »

Because, given the printer/paper/profile you are using the colors in the out of gamut areas are beyond the range of your printer/paper/profile to reproduce.
It does, but in the out of gamut areas there may be details that are present in the image file but missing in print, and on the monitor in those out of gamut areas, assuming everything is properly calibrated. For instance, in a very saturated sunset you may have some out of gamut areas in the sky. If you bring those areas back within the gamut, details that were present in the file but previously not visible may appear. Suppose there is shading in a cloud that defines a contour within it. Every part of that gradient that is beyond the gamut will be the same color - i.e., the color "blocks up" in the out of gamut area. Without the warning to point this out you might not realize there was anything missing.

Dean,

I would like some clarification.  Are you saying that detail is lost in out of gamut areas or merely color in the detail?  Somehow, I think it is the latter, because,you can completely desaturate an image without losing detail.

Rob
Logged

Christoph C. Feldhaim

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2509
  • There is no rule! No - wait ...
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 01:31:19 pm »

Dean,

I would like some clarification.  Are you saying that detail is lost in out of gamut areas or merely color in the detail?  Somehow, I think it is the latter, because,you can completely desaturate an image without losing detail.

Rob

When you have a sunset and areas with very similar luminance but different colors, a desaturation would make mush out of these differences.
Same with out of gamut color gradients - the color is mushed and there is no more gradient if the is no luminance differential.

DeanChriss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 592
    • http://www.dmcphoto.com
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 04:45:45 pm »

Dean,

I would like some clarification.  Are you saying that detail is lost in out of gamut areas or merely color in the detail?  Somehow, I think it is the latter, because,you can completely desaturate an image without losing detail.

Rob

I'm saying detail is often, but not always, lost in an out of gamut area. It depends on exactly what makes a detail visible in the first place. For instance, two adjacent pixels of the same hue and saturation can be differentiated by luminosity. If both are out of gamut due to excess luminosity then they become indistinguishable. Two pixels can also be distinguished by a difference in saturation. If both are out of gamut due to being over saturated, the pixels become indistinguishable. In both cases detail is obliterated.

Gamut is actually a volume with hue (color),  saturation, and luminosity coordinates (HSL), though there are other ways to describe it. The the outer surface of that volume is a set of HSL coordinates beyond which you go outside the available gamut. If there is a gradient in hue that's all of the same luminosity, and the whole gradient is out of gamut, you'd get banding of the hues. Desaturating won't help because it's all the same luminosity and there would be no differentiation. I doubt you'd want to change the hues (colors), so decreasing luminosity is the only option left to bring everything back into the available gamut. If it's the same hue and all out of gamut there's a potential option of decreasing saturation or luminosity or both to get back the gradient. In a nutshell there are three things you can change to get an area back within gamut, and one is hue or color, which you probably don't want to change, so you're left with saturation and brightness (luminosity).

Suppose there's a gradient of the same hue that varies in luminosity, as sometimes happens within a cloud structure at sunset. Part of that gradient is just on the edge of the available gamut, and as the luminosity increases over a distance it gets further and further out of gamut. That entire area of the print will show no gradient. Instead it's a just blob of that single hue at the maximum luminosity available for that hue in the gamut. In this case if you decrease the luminosity so the part that's furthest out of gamut is back in gamut, you'll recover the whole gradient. But, since H, S, and L all interact, it's also possible you could decrease the saturation to get the gradient back. What works best really depends on which of those 3 coordinates (really 2 because we don't want to change color) is most out of kilter.

I'm sure I left something out or screwed up some detail, but I hope that's adequate to convey the basic idea.
Logged
- Dean

robgo2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 388
    • Robert Goldstein Photography
Re: Help me understand "gamut warning."
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2013, 07:49:42 pm »

Dean,

Thanks for the very lucid explanation.  I now have a new understanding of gamut and gamut warning and also strategies for optimizing them.  However, as Jeff said earlier, if the soft proof looks good on the monitor, then the image should look good in the print, although something may have been lost from the original.

Rob
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up