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Author Topic: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited  (Read 7932 times)

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 10:20:01 am »

Not that I know anything but it seems like they very often have sales on paper so that's nothing 'new' although w/ the advent of iPads and the like, there is even less incentive to print (ala mass market (it'd be interesting to see sales figures for low-end printers and CVS kiosk printing)), who knows what the issue w/ Ilford is/was and just like cameras, things have gotten good enough to 'so good' that until there is something disruptive, the camera and printer makers are shuffling deck chairs to introduce 'new and improved' enough to warrant stepping up.

Some paper mills are running at 1/3 of their capacity. Both a bad economy and the change to other media are to blame. There will remain a market for good prints but I expect not all the manufacturers-distributors we know will still be around in 2015.

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cortlander

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 10:59:01 am »

One wonders whether all these sales, combined with the recent upheavals at Ilford Imaging GmBH, combined with an apparent slow-down in the production of new printer models are precursors of the demise of the printing era.

I sincerely hope not...printing is a hobby I discovered a year ago and with the quality of stuff even an amateur can do today, from the photograph to process to print it almost feels like the golden age of photography.

Epson did have this identical rebate of 25% off for up to 5 items last December as well.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2013, 03:46:34 pm »

One wonders whether all these sales, combined with the recent upheavals at Ilford Imaging GmBH, combined with an apparent slow-down in the production of new printer models are precursors of the demise of the printing era.
There will still be office space to decorate and I don't think these facilities will be putting up video screens. ;D 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2013, 03:48:30 pm »

Yes Alan of course; I wasn't suggesting that the area would be totally vacated, but I think Ernst is right to ask whether a certain number of the players will still be around a couple of years from now.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2013, 03:54:03 pm »

Yes Alan of course; I wasn't suggesting that the area would be totally vacated, but I think Ernst is right to ask whether a certain number of the players will still be around a couple of years from now.
I'm quite surprised that we haven't seen companies dropping out over the past several years since the big recession hit in 2008.  I haven't been following the Ilford story lately, did they get the bridge financing they needed? 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2013, 04:06:55 pm »

My information is kind of spotty, but I understand they managed to reorganize some assets and operations and attract some additional money. How secure it is over the longer term remains to be seen.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2013, 04:39:58 pm »

I am a fan of Exhibition Fiber, although I do worry a bit about the optical brighteners. One of the things I like most about it is that it lies very flat both before and after printing. Having it lie flat before printing means you can use low head positions without fear of head strikes. Having it lie flat after printing means that it'll look good when matted with photo corners.

It is quite blue, and it took me a while to find a mat paper that matches it well: Crescent Select Vivid White, item number C5700.

Jim

AFairley

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2013, 05:19:31 pm »

I am a fan of Exhibition Fiber, although I do worry a bit about the optical brighteners. One of the things I like most about it is that it lies very flat both before and after printing. Having it lie flat before printing means you can use low head positions without fear of head strikes. Having it lie flat after printing means that it'll look good when matted with photo corners.

It is quite blue, and it took me a while to find a mat paper that matches it well: Crescent Select Vivid White, item number C5700.

Jim

Although I recently got a box of 17x22 in the new black "signature worthy" packaging that is definitely wavy out of the box and does not flatten down after printing when left out to degas for 24-48 hours as I usually do.
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mrchapp

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2013, 07:35:17 pm »

 I have been printing with exhibition fiber paper for several years. While I have never had an issue with 17
or 24 inch rolls, for the last 6-9 months I have returned the majority of the 17x22 boxes purchased from a very reputable store because of severe tenting. Don't know if the cause was moisture exposure during storage and/or shipping, or a manufacturing defect. The store advised that I was not the only purchaser who had the problem.
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AFairley

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2013, 09:23:30 pm »

Thanks Mrchapp, maybe I will contact Epson, it really is a cut below what I'm used to getting from the, plus it's cut over 1/8" long on the long side.  I can't return it to B&H since I kept the box unopened a couple months before I opened it (stored flat).  I hate wasting my time dealing with this shit.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2013, 05:02:13 pm »

One wonders whether all these sales, combined with the recent upheavals at Ilford Imaging GmBH, combined with an apparent slow-down in the production of new printer models are precursors of the demise of the printing era.
No new printers because the technology has basically matured to the limit of physics - our eyes just cannot perceive anything more than what’s already possible.  As far as the demise of the printing era, I suppose OLED technology could eventually get cheap enough, but my printing business is growing quite nicely. I just sold 32 Canon Pixma Pro 10 printers last weekend on a special demo day with Canon, and have doubled my inventory of ink and paper.  The output side of my store has grown over 400% in the last 2.5 years. 

Maybe I’m getting business from competitors, but I get the sense the demand for output is actually increasing after bottoming out a few years ago.  It will never be what it was, but I think it’s demise is not in the foreseeable future.  I think there has been an over supply of paper manufacturers, so the market is pretty fragmented, so with any commodity in this state, some don’t make it with some of them going away or being purchased/absorbed by others (such as Legion paper/Moab paper)
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slackercruster

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2013, 06:07:21 pm »

Ex fiber is a nice looking paper. but it curls terrible. I had to throw away $300 worth of it...pure crap Epson.
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Farmer

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2013, 07:10:33 pm »

Did you contact Epson for assistance? 
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Phil Brown

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2013, 07:48:38 pm »

Ex fiber is a nice looking paper. but it curls terrible. I had to throw away $300 worth of it...pure crap Epson.

I've only been using it since 2010, but this is the first box I've gotten that didn't lie very flat.
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dwswager

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2015, 06:02:27 pm »

Back in 2008 Mark Dubovoy reviewed Epson Exhibition Fiber paper favorably and, in an addendum, Michael added comments that were somewhat less favorable and complained about the high pricing of the then new paper. At that time, one of Michael's favorites, Ilford Gold Fiber Silk (GFS) Barytas, was more favorably priced. Both authors were worried that the Epson paper employed optical brighteners that could possibly affect longevity unfavorably.

In 2013 the pricing appears more favorable vis-à-vis the Ilford product as shown in the table below, which lists the current pricing at B&H.

I currently have been using Epson Ultra Premium Luster on my Epson 3880 but want to try something new and have ordered a box of the Epson paper and am also considering GFS. The pricing differential is no longer significant. Any comments would be appreciated. I don't have profiling ability and have been using the Epson profiles, and would appreciate any advice on what profile would be best.

How did this work out Bill?  Did you use EEF?  I am thinking of replacing the R2400 with the 3880 so I've been looking at papers and printed test images on EEF, Luster, Hot Press and Cold Press.  EEF is by far the sharpest and has the best blacks I've ever seen in an inkjet print.  I used the Pixel Genius EEF profile for the R2400.

Seems the knocks that I have read are price and longevity, but as you found out, the price is better than most similar 3rd party papers now (early 2015).  And at least according to the test results I've seen, it has much better logevity than most other papers with K3 inks.  Of course, the OBAs are going to no florese if under UV glass and will burn out much sooner than the print fades making the paper more yellow and toning down the highlights and upper midtones.

I'm just about to pull the trigger on 24" Rolls of Luster and EEF and cutting to width with a 24" Rototrimmer.  My Price comparisons below (2015).   Luster is the steal in this comparison.


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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2015, 09:04:08 pm »

Yes, the Epson Luster is the cheapest in the list, but when using it one knows why. I think in terms of value for money in the higher quality heavier papers with little or no OBA, the Canson Baryta Photographique looks like a very good deal.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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dwswager

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2015, 09:15:13 pm »

Yes, the Epson Luster is the cheapest in the list, but when using it one knows why. 

Why?  I'm not a big fan of the base and I really want to dislike it, but the print quality on this paper is very good in most respects.  I'm more a matte paper fan for myself, but the surfaces can be very fragile.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2015, 09:32:20 pm »

Why?  I'm not a big fan of the base and I really want to dislike it, but the print quality on this paper is very good in most respects.  I'm more a matte paper fan for myself, but the surfaces can be very fragile.

Well, a lot of stuff about paper is very subjective, so what I think is just me - others may think it's fine. Firstly, I find handling it risky. It's thin, so in large sheets it can develop little creases unless held very carefully. Secondly, I find it has a bluish cast which I don't like. Thirdly, it is obviously loaded with some kind of OBA - so caveat emptor. Finally, The look of the ink on this paper disturbs me. I find photos printed on this paper just don't have the kind of "full-bodied" look as the same photos printed on IGFS or CBP. I know it starts to sound like what kind of coffee one likes, but if your asking me "why", that's it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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dwswager

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2015, 10:11:07 pm »

Well, a lot of stuff about paper is very subjective, so what I think is just me - others may think it's fine. Firstly, I find handling it risky. It's thin, so in large sheets it can develop little creases unless held very carefully. Secondly, I find it has a bluish cast which I don't like. Thirdly, it is obviously loaded with some kind of OBA - so caveat emptor. Finally, The look of the ink on this paper disturbs me. I find photos printed on this paper just don't have the kind of "full-bodied" look as the same photos printed on IGFS or CBP. I know it starts to sound like what kind of coffee one likes, but if your asking me "why", that's it.

I do first proofs on it and it is what I print on to give to people that ask me for prints of something 8x10 and smaller because they expect a gloss finish on a photograph.  But yeah, I wish it was a little stiffer and thicker.  I like the feel of heavy, rigid matte papers in my hands though.
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kers

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Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper Revisited
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2015, 05:15:32 am »

I am on a HP z3100. Some papers that perform well on an Epson simply do not work on it.. ( like Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- heavy bronzing)
The HP has a gloss enhancer that does not work on some papers...
On this EEF paper it works very well - but because of the brighteners i turned to other papers:
my favorites are now Hahnemules Photo Rag Baryta- yellowish base paper - very soft and fragile- but very nice for BW.
the other one more close to EEF is Canson Platine. I consider it the best at the moment.
Pure white base without optical brighteners - thick and strong...310gr.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 01:07:03 pm by kers »
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Pieter Kers
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