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Author Topic: develop ones own style...  (Read 89933 times)

RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #100 on: September 27, 2013, 10:01:12 pm »

That's a rant, Floyd, an exact illustration of what you're complaining about with your continued accusations about ad hominem attacks. You said that the "styles" of Ansel and Edward "clearly" are not identical. If it's so "clear" then it should be easy for you to explain the difference. Phrases like "continued attempt to confuse the issue" and "your silly questions" don't really deal with the question, do they? You backed yourself into a corner. Now explain the differences between Ansel and Edward or admit that neither one of them had what, in an artistic sense, could be called a "style."
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Isaac

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #101 on: September 27, 2013, 10:49:30 pm »

You have flatly asserted '... Ansel simply didn't have a "style." '

The burden rests on you to show evidence for that assertion; the burden does not rest on others to show you are wrong.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2013, 12:11:36 am »

That's a rant, Floyd, an exact illustration of what you're complaining about with your continued accusations about ad hominem attacks. You said that the "styles" of Ansel and Edward "clearly" are not identical. If it's so "clear" then it should be easy for you to explain the difference. Phrases like "continued attempt to confuse the issue" and "your silly questions" don't really deal with the question, do they? You backed yourself into a corner. Now explain the differences between Ansel and Edward or admit that neither one of them had what, in an artistic sense, could be called a "style."

Please stay on topic.  In this thread it makes no difference if Adams and Weston are different or if Adams does or doesn't have a style.  And until you show differently, it's off topic.

You want your own corner, and I've refused to go there.   You should start a thread where it is on topic and begin it by making whatever claim it is about comparing Weston and Adams that you think is valid.  You'll be in a corner from which there is no escape!

Lets take a fresh look at the original post that started this thread.

Let me start by saying that I derive virtually no income from this hobby of photography, although I do/will not hesitate to donate.
For years the mantra of developing one's style has been preached to me and I want no part of it...for it indicates, to me, that this journey has ended and that journey is what provides me the enjoyment.
I visited an art show a couple of weeks ago and took 30 minutes to watch a painter cough out an image...that's all the time he needed. He had developed his style and it never changed.  Is that "Art"...I would hope not.
Imagine, just for a moment, that there is nothing left for one to learn, that the journey had ended...

To the degree the first conclusion drawn ("that this journey has ended") is correct, the rest follows as valid. However, the example of the 30 minute painting doesn't necessarily demonstrate that the painter's style is static and will not change in the future.  Worse, claiming the painting is not "Art", even if the style was static, is hardly even close to valid. (It might not be exciting to you or me, but to someone else it might be exactly that.)

But the rhetorical question at the end is a very good leader for conversation!

I've no doubt that most, and probably all, artists come to periods in their careers where their style has become static, it's as if the journey has ended, and they are bored and in the doldrums!  Sometimes it can last for years, maybe even a life time.  Sometimes it's over the next day...

But the idea that developing "your own style" means that once you've found something to take possesion of means there can't be change just is never the goal any artist is likely to have.  We keep moving the goal posts, looking at new horizons... doing what is more fun, more profitable, or whatever gives us a sense of success.

There was also the question at one point about photographers who've become famous for different styles, and the only one I could think of off hand was Joel Meyerowitz; but bless RSL's little heart of gold, Edward Weston is probably the classic case!  He began at age 16 in 1902, when the "Pictorial Style" of photography was very much in vogue.  Weston actually made a name for himself with work done in that style.  But as he matured he became dissatisified and supposedly in 1915 was very inspired by an exhibit of Modern Art at the San Francisco World's Fair.  The idea apparenlty crystalized in 1922 when he photographed a steel mill in Ohio.  His style abruptly began to grow in a new direction, and by 1932 Weston was among those who formed the now famous Group F/64.

Point taken:  Weston's style was his own very early in life and very clearly changed almost continuously, and at some points dramatically, over his entire life.

It may or may not be typical of all artists to make the dramatic change in style  that Weston did (though we might note that Pablo Picasso did almost exactly the same thing at the same age, perhaps going in the opposite direction!), but at least two of the characteristics of Weston's stylistic journey are very common.  One is to have periods where it seems nothing is changing and the fun and creativity are gone, and the other is to be most creative immediately after such a period when a "new love" has been found.  (We might also note that Weston and Picasso seemed to share the charactisitc of being hugely inspired by the women they were involved wtth.)

Hence I would not agree that the mantra being preached, according to the OP, is development of a style to the point is extinction of change.  It does not ever reach a point where development ends!  Each step merely brings you to the point where the next step is one you can now take.  The journey is life, and should end only at death rather than because "your style" is supposedly fully developed.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 12:16:57 am by Floyd Davidson »
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2013, 07:47:30 am »

In other words, Floyd, you admit you can't explain the difference between Ansel's and Edward's "styles," a difference you claim is "clear." You went to a lot of trouble to duck the question, but the fact that you can't identify a difference is what's become very clear.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2013, 09:47:33 am »

In other words, Floyd, you  ...
I'm staying on topic.

Please start a thread where your question is appropriate.
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2013, 10:22:38 am »

I always love it when a debater self-destructs.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2013, 10:41:02 am »

I always love it when a debater self-destructs.
Like you have in this thread???  :-)

If you had the courage to stand by what you've said, you would open another thread to discuss it properly.
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Isaac

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2013, 11:19:28 am »

I always love it when a debater self-destructs.

I always love it when I gain a clearer understanding. I see that your interest is in quarrelling rather than arguing. Here's where you gave up the argument --

I agree that Rob said he could identify the difference between the work of some people working in the same photographic genre he worked in. Whether or not the difference can be called a "style" is a semantic question, and I'm not going to argue semantics.

"The object of argument is to get at the truth. The object of quarrelling is to get at other people"
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #108 on: September 28, 2013, 12:01:19 pm »

Hi, Isaac. Gonna go out today and shoot some pictures and post 'em so we can get a look at your "style?"
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2013, 12:03:21 pm »

I'm staying on topic.

At this point, the "clear difference" you claim is there between Adams's and Weston's "styles" IS the topic.
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Gulag

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #110 on: September 29, 2013, 12:28:47 am »

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Jean Baudrillard

Isaac

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2013, 01:09:25 pm »

Hi, Isaac. Gonna go out today and shoot some pictures and post 'em so we can get a look at your "style?"

Thank you for making it absolutely clear that you wish to quarrel.



Quote
"There are any number of folk who, though happy to quarrel with you, are either unwilling or unable to argue with you. Do not waste time and energy trying to argue with people who will not or cannot argue."

Being Logical: A Guide to Good Thinking, page 97-8
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 07:38:45 pm by Isaac »
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wmchauncey

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2013, 01:31:43 pm »

What might you call my style







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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2013, 07:15:20 pm »

What might you call my style

Ahhhh...  I see!  Your style is to make damned nice photographs!  :-)

(The horrible part is that I actually do see some similarity in what you like and in what RSL likes.)
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2013, 09:10:43 pm »

Thank you for making it absolutely clear that you wish to quarrel.
More photography and less pop psychology, Isaac. Let's see some pictures.
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Isaac

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #115 on: September 29, 2013, 09:29:05 pm »

This discussion forum is "A free form forum for opinions on photography as an art form."

If you wish to see some pictures look in User Critiques.
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RSL

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #116 on: September 30, 2013, 07:32:08 am »

This discussion forum is "A free form forum for opinions on photography as an art form."

If you wish to see some pictures look in User Critiques.
I look there all the time, Isaac, but I never see any of your pictures that might back up your opinions.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #117 on: September 30, 2013, 07:51:41 am »

I look there all the time, Isaac, but I never see any of your pictures that might back up your opinions.

This will the the 117th article posted in this thread.  Of those exactly one has included images, but I think they were intended to be for entertainment value rather than to support any paricular opinion.

It appears that nobody, and signficicantly not even you does what you insist that Isaac should do.  Clearly you are not demanding that because you think it would be useful, as opposed to just being nasty.

Why not just knock it off, eh?
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wmchauncey

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #118 on: September 30, 2013, 08:53:58 am »

Quote
I think they were intended to be for entertainment value rather than to support any paricular opinion.
Entertainment value...if you're suggesting that I posted the images for the sake of levity you're sadly mistaken...it called for a response.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: develop ones own style...
« Reply #119 on: September 30, 2013, 09:18:47 am »

Entertainment value...if you're suggesting that I posted the images for the sake of levity you're sadly mistaken...it called for a response.

I assumed they were for the shear pleasure of looking at them!  That is the "entertainment value", and I thought it was significant with those particular images.

Levity would have been to support an opinion...
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