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Author Topic: Won Over to the Cloudy Side  (Read 15948 times)

David Watson

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2013, 01:34:02 pm »

As someone who does do so (having the CS6 suite), I looked closely at the deal. Continued upgrades would cost me about £1400 over the next 6 years, compared with paying £3000 in subscriptions.

Depends how much of the Adobe Suite you actually use.  If it is just PS and LR then I would agree but if you use a lot of the other packages it starts to make sense.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2013, 03:17:46 pm »

Depends how much of the Adobe Suite you actually use.  If it is just PS and LR then I would agree but if you use a lot of the other packages it starts to make sense.

You miss my point, David. As I said, I have the suite and do use more than 2-3 apps. For new suite customers, it is cost neutral over 5-6 years and easier on the cashflow. For those upgrading and "like me you keep your OS, hardware and applications completely up-to-date", this good deal is a hefty price rise....
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 03:37:14 pm by johnbeardy »
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Sekoya

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 11:03:10 pm »

Considering that CC is less expensive than continual upgrades and everybody here has pretty much kept up with most of the upgrades, I'm at a loss to see the downside. If you cease to upgrade, you'll be hosed soon enough when you go to upgrade your computer and find that the latest Apple doesn't support anything over two years old.
New OS updates tended to break much more in the past with OS X but now it is quite mature and the main APIs don't change much. I think it is reasonable to assume that a five-year old application will run on the current OS, if you add an average computer age of two years, that is seven years. Buy CS once every seven years is much cheaper than the subscription.
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I understand the philosophical issues involved, but philosophy and reality are two different things to us photographers.

Most professional photographers will photoshop an image till it's done, make the prints (or whatever the output is) and rarily, if ever revisit it again. And if we do revisit it, it's because we want to make it better, somehow, which usually means undergoing an all new raw conversion which means a whole new post processing effort. The fact we might lose all our editing layers may not mean much in reality.
And that is the key, if you run a business, the subscription is just the cost of doing business like renting an office. But if you don't run a business, photos will keep their value much much longer because they are personal memories, and if keeping your memories requires a $30/month subscription fee, things don't look quite so positive.

But then, I think 99% of all images won't need PS if you use LR or Aperture and thus maintaining their functionality is 100 times more important. The same is true for video work, complex documents in InDesign but then their won't be too many InDesign documents made containing personal stuff.
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Colorado David

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2013, 03:50:13 pm »

Controlling costs is a huge part of running a successful business.  Just because the subscription is a cost of doing business and is tax deductible, doesn't mean it isn't still a real cost that comes out of cash flow and profit.  Just because I might tip over the edge and join the cloud doesn't mean I don't still dislike the whole thing.  Deming, the father of what is now known as Kaizen, said that focusing on quality improves your quality and reduces your costs, focusing on costs reduces your quality and raises your costs.  Still, you have to pay attention or costs will sink your business.

dseelig

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Re: Screwed over by the cloud
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2013, 12:46:39 pm »

For those of us living on a budget upgrading every other version of photoshop who have supported adbe for years this is BS . It is just a money grab by a monopoly.
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dreed

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2013, 04:06:37 pm »

I posted this question to Michael in the wrong forum on here...

----

I keep meaning to ask this but kept forgetting...

In the article on "Why going to the cloud", the mention of "continued updates" was raised.

Which to me prompts this question(s) about updates.

Do the regular and automated updates from Adobe using its update downloader not satisfy?
Or will that be phased out over time to favour getting updates from the CC?
Or will the updates released from the CC be different to the "patch updates" for Ps/Lr products?

I suppose I'm curious about why this was called out for mention when it should be something that already happens?

Or is it a reference to what will eventually be "upgrades", not just "patches" or "updates", when (for example) Lr goes from 5.x to 6.x and CC folks will just "get it" as part of their regular update?
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Schewe

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2013, 04:28:48 pm »

Or is it a reference to what will eventually be "upgrades", not just "patches" or "updates", when (for example) Lr goes from 5.x to 6.x and CC folks will just "get it" as part of their regular update?

Yes...you'll receive "upgrades" on a regular basis (CC subscribers have already received an upgrade since CC was launched). So, getting upgrades with new features and functionality is what Mike was referring to...not simple updates for bugs and maintenance releases. Note, that is for Photoshop...Lightroom will not get incremental upgrades but subscribers will get Lightroom 6 when it comes out.
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alainbriot

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 04:35:54 pm »

Yes, that's the way I understand it.  The Creative Cloud offers continuous updates, whether Adobe releases updates to current versions of the software or entirely new versions.  I also think those who subscribe to the 'all apps' option will get any future new apps, if new apps are released.

On a separate note I find that this approach saves me time because there is now a single location where can update all my apps  compared to having to udpate each app separately.

ALain
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Alain Briot
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John Camp

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2013, 07:54:45 pm »

It's apparent that some of the disagreement about costs cuts across the amateur/professional line. I would think a large majority of the people here are amateurs, or at least would not make enough money from photography to get the IRS (in the US) to agree that it qualifies as a business. (Basically, and crudely stated, the IRS wants you to make more money than you deduct to be a legitimate business. If you make $1000 a year on photography, and try to deduct $3,000 cameras every year, plus computers, office space and software, they will not be happy, and their unhappiness translates directly into repayments with interest plus fines, and, theoretically possible at least, jail time.) If you are on the legitimately professional side of this line, you get to deduct the software, which amounts to a savings of 15-40+%, depending on your income and how your business is structured.

The amateurs don't get that, so they pay the full load. And I think that's where a lot of the complaints come from -- the amateur photographers. And, I have no proof of this at all, but I suspect amateurs make up the bulk of Adobe customers, at least for some of their photo-related software packages. I've read that they don't really carry about amateurs, but if you simply sit down and put your thinking cap on, and try to figure out how many fully-professional Adobe-using photographers there, I think you'd conclude that the number is in the low thousands in the very largest art centers like New York and Los Angeles, with much small cohorts in other cities. According to the US Bureau of Statistics, for example, there are 56,140 people in the US employed as "photographers." I wouldn't think that would be enough to keep Adobe fully occupied...I think the amateurs are carrying the load.
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Isaac

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2013, 11:26:39 pm »

And, I have no proof of this at all, but I suspect amateurs make up the bulk of Adobe customers, at least for some of their photo-related software packages.

pdf Slide 24 "FY12 CS Product Family Revenue Mix"

~10% @Home Individuals
~25% Education
~25% @Work Creatives
~40% Creative Professionals


The CC horse was flogged to death back in May.
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dreed

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2013, 12:42:32 pm »

Yes, that's the way I understand it.  The Creative Cloud offers continuous updates, whether Adobe releases updates to current versions of the software or entirely new versions.  I also think those who subscribe to the 'all apps' option will get any future new apps, if new apps are released.

On a separate note I find that this approach saves me time because there is now a single location where can update all my apps  compared to having to udpate each app separately.

I find this curious because on Windows, there is an "Adobe Update Manager" that seems to take care of this that isn't present on Apple?
Or is this something different again?
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alainbriot

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2013, 12:59:41 pm »

I find this curious because on Windows, there is an "Adobe Update Manager" that seems to take care of this that isn't present on Apple?
Or is this something different again?

I'm talking about the Creative Cloud Manager app.  The Adobe Application Manager is pretty much the same on Apple otherwise.
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Alain Briot
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John Camp

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2013, 09:04:52 pm »

pdf Slide 24 "FY12 CS Product Family Revenue Mix"

~10% @Home Individuals
~25% Education
~25% @Work Creatives
~40% Creative Professionals


The CC horse was flogged to death back in May.


Pretty much the breakdown I expected, though I didn't know this existed. The 35% in either education or at home are obviously non-professionals, and I would expect that at least half of the "creative professionals" don't make a living at it... 
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Isaac

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2013, 10:53:33 pm »

You understand that you're just making stuff up, don't you?
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Colorado David

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2013, 10:57:16 pm »

Quote from: John Camp
. . . and I would expect that at least half of the "creative professionals" don't make a living at it... 

Please show your data to support this.

jjj

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2013, 01:33:53 pm »

pdf Slide 24 "FY12 CS Product Family Revenue Mix"

~10% @Home Individuals
~25% Education
~25% @Work Creatives
~40% Creative Professionals
What is @Work Creatives?


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The CC horse was flogged to death back in May.
Still has legs it would seem. ;)
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

Isaac

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2013, 01:37:40 pm »

Nope, just flogging a dead horse.
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jjj

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2013, 03:11:16 pm »

Yet Adobe only very recently altered the CC. So still alive and kicking it would appear - to flog the metaphor even further.
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Isaac

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2013, 03:34:59 pm »

iirc back in May, Adobe announced that they would be considering more attractive pricing for those who'd previously licensed PS CS.
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John Camp

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Re: Won Over to the Cloudy Side
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2013, 04:27:53 pm »

You understand that you're just making stuff up, don't you?

Oh, maybe. But I would note that if you actually do a little research, you'll find buried comments like one from Barron's that Adobe has missed its profit goals although it has more than a million customers for its subscription services, while, elsewhere, the Bureau of Labor Statistics say that in May of 2012 there were 56,140 employed photographers in the US, and I suspect there are more employed photographers than there are graphics and movie professionals and other "creatives" using Adobe products, because photographers would seem to me to be the most numerous of those related professions (I could be wrong) so the gap between the "more than a million" CC  customers and the 56,140 photographers would seem to be a large one...But, who knows, really, and more to the point, who cares?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 04:30:42 pm by John Camp »
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