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Author Topic: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?  (Read 10159 times)

NancyP

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Apologies to those who also read the "Medium/Large Format" forum - this is a cross-post.

I was idly browsing when I noticed a 120mm f/4 macro manual focus manual aperture 645 MF lens sitting in the used section of the local shop - didn't look too closely. I am pretty sure that it is a Mamiya mount. Could be Pentax A mount. Lightbulb went on after I got home - could this lens be adapted to my current Canon full frame camera? Why bother?

1. Can this be adapted to be a true T/S macro lens for a 35mm FF camera? I would think that the image circle ought to be sufficient. There's well over 20mm of difference between Mamiya flange-film distance and Canon flange-sensor distance.
2. Mirex adapter - any good? Zoerk adapter - good? Any other suggestions? Anyone have one for sale?

I am intrigued by the thought of T/S true macro - to be able to pick the composition and the plane of focus at the same time.

Yes, it is true that I have NO experience with T/S. Yes, I am moderately patient. No, I don't throw stuff when I get frustrated and don't understand how to do something. For that matter, I have no MF or view camera experience. I do like manual lenses, and particularly those with "manual/auto" switches enabling one to pre-set desired aperture. I have a few of those sitting around from the old days, but for 35mm.
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Ellis Vener

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HarperPhotos

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Hi Nancy,

I use a Horseman VCC adaptor with my Nikon D800E and this is invaluable for my business.

http://www.kenko-pi.co.jp/horseman/e/VCCpro/index.html

Unfortunately they do not make a Pentax mount.

I have checked on EBay and you can get a Canon to Pentax and a Nikon to Pentax adaptors so you should be able to mount your pentax the the Horseman VCC adaptor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-FD-mount-Lens-to-Pentax-K-PK-mount-adapter-with-Optical-Glass-and-Caps-/271252878101?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item3f27ee7315

http://www.ebay.com/itm/lens-adapter-Nikon-AI-F-mount-lens-to-Pentax-PK-K-mout-camera-with-optical-glass-/151065258197?pt=US_Lens_Adapters_Mounts_Tubes&hash=item232c30e8d5

By the way I am selling my old Horseman VCC on EBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221263459515?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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Auckland, New Zealand

NancyP

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Thanks everyone. The Horseman system and the Hartblei/Zeiss lens are too expensive for me. Intriguing, though. I hope to put together a T/S macro system for under $1,000.00, which may be possible with the Mirex or Zoerk adapters and a used manual focus, manual aperture ring MF lens.
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Michael N. Meyer

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I use Kipon's knock off of the Mirex to adapt a Micro Nikkor to my Nex-7 for e-commerce shoots. I get good results from it, but it isn't a perfect device.

The tilt function of the adapter isn't on axis, which I find annoying. Also, the tilt and shift cannot be rotated independently of one another. Want tilt and rise? Can't do it. Want swing plus shift? No can do. Not the end of the world, but it is a limit to be aware of. This is also a limit that some purpose made T/S lenses have also.

You can read my (long-winded) review of the adapter here.

I had initially considered the Mirex adapter plus a Mamiya 80mm macro for my a850. I'm glad that I went with the Kipon for the NEX instead. Not having live-view would have made working with tilt much harder. The minimal quality loss between the FF and APS-C sensors is unimportant given my client's output needs.

-m

mcbroomf

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    • Mike Broomfield

I use the original Mirex with P645 lenses on a Canon and I do own the 120/4 macro.  I also have the Kipon knockoff for Nikon/Nex and can echo Michael's comments.

I use mine for wide angle lenses, not long or macro, but I can check the 120 macro over the weekend if you're interested (tilt or shift?).  Only the P645/Canon though, I don't have a macro Nikon lens for the Nex.  The limit (quality) will likely be masking by the opening of the adapter rather than image circle problems.  On my 18 and 25mm Distagon's on the NEX I can only tilt to ~8 before mechanical vignetting.
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NancyP

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Tilt is more important to me in macro. Yes, I am worried a bit about the possible obstruction of the image at tilt - hard to predict, at least without either a specimen or some math.
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mcbroomf

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Ok I'll give it a shot and let you know what I see
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi,

Check this: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/29-handling-the-dof-trap?start=3

and this: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/73-sonnar-150-cb-on-dslr-using-arax-tilt-adapter

On the other hand I have found serious internal reflections on the Arax adapter, I would recommend the Mirex adapters instead: http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm

Best regards
Erik




Apologies to those who also read the "Medium/Large Format" forum - this is a cross-post.

I was idly browsing when I noticed a 120mm f/4 macro manual focus manual aperture 645 MF lens sitting in the used section of the local shop - didn't look too closely. I am pretty sure that it is a Mamiya mount. Could be Pentax A mount. Lightbulb went on after I got home - could this lens be adapted to my current Canon full frame camera? Why bother?

1. Can this be adapted to be a true T/S macro lens for a 35mm FF camera? I would think that the image circle ought to be sufficient. There's well over 20mm of difference between Mamiya flange-film distance and Canon flange-sensor distance.
2. Mirex adapter - any good? Zoerk adapter - good? Any other suggestions? Anyone have one for sale?

I am intrigued by the thought of T/S true macro - to be able to pick the composition and the plane of focus at the same time.

Yes, it is true that I have NO experience with T/S. Yes, I am moderately patient. No, I don't throw stuff when I get frustrated and don't understand how to do something. For that matter, I have no MF or view camera experience. I do like manual lenses, and particularly those with "manual/auto" switches enabling one to pre-set desired aperture. I have a few of those sitting around from the old days, but for 35mm.
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Erik Kaffehr
 

RFPhotography

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see: http://www.hartblei.de/en/tech1.htm

Ellis, is that the same Hartblei as at hartblei.com, they of the endlessly out of stock Super Rotator?
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NancyP

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Re: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 07:58:22 pm »

Yep.
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CptZar

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Re: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 03:15:25 am »

Ellis, is that the same Hartblei as at hartblei.com, they of the endlessly out of stock Super Rotator?

No.

Hartblei.de offers Zeiss lenses from the Hasselblad 500 series, whereas Hartblei.com, which belongs to Hartblei, Ukraine,  offer their own lenses.  The Hartblei Zeiss lenses use the mechanics of Hartblei Ukraine though, which are fantastic. Optical wise its a different beast though. The Hartblei-Zeiss are as good as a lens can be.  

http://diglloyd.com/articles/Hartblei-pub/Main.html

HTH

Jan

NancyP

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Re: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 02:38:30 pm »

Thanks. Only checked hartblei.de
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jjphoto

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Re: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2013, 05:34:06 am »

I've used the Mamiya 120/4 A with a Mirex T/S adapter on a Canon body for a few years now. No complaints from me. I use it mostly for automotive 'detail' shots from fairly close range but rarely 1:1.



The lens is very sharp wide open which is how I tend to use it, for shallow DOF, but it does sharpen up further at F8 where it is extremely sharp to the edges.

This is at F4 with NO tilt at all, the bokeh is quite OK at close range.


These are at F4 with tilt to control focus along the length of the car. The lens is great for that kind of thing.



Macro with tilt is problematic because you need to increase tilt as you increase the magnification ratio so you get to a point where it just isn't very workable any more because you need more tilt than the adapter/bellows/view camera or whatever can offer or that the lens can handle. Your own application might determine how useful this setup really is to you but for typical product shots it's a really nice setup, easy to use and reasonably cheap too.

There are other ways to achieve tilt/shift for macro work, such as the Nikon PB-4 or a few other similar macro bellows. The PB-4 might be the cheapest option with a decent lens like a Schneider 100/5.6 Componon-s rounding out the setup.



The PB-4 also gives quite a lot more tilt than adapters like the Mirex, I think it's about 25 degrees, but don't quote me.
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NancyP

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Re: tilt/shift macro: can you get there with MF lens and FF or APS-C sensor?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 12:13:32 pm »

Thanks!
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