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Author Topic: (UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps  (Read 3775 times)

Mark Lindquist

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(UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« on: August 12, 2013, 11:21:11 am »

I'm trying to use up some old rolls of Epson paper that I got when I used my 4800 Pro printer.

Doing some experiments on profiling Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art on the HP Z3200ps 44" printer.

Any thoughts, suggestions as to what would be a good base paper match to create a profile from would be appreciated.

So far have done a profile based on HP Hahnemuehle Smooth Fine Art Paper, and not really that impressed.

Will try HP Matte Litho-Realistic paper, as a base paper, next and see how that goes.

If you have any ideas or have used Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art with your Z3200 printer, by all means, please share your ideas, outcome, profile path, thoughts, etc.

Thanks -

Mark
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 02:38:05 pm by Mark Lindquist »
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aaronchan

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 12:37:53 pm »

First of all, what do you mean by not too impressive?
Compare to what?

I've used Epson Velvet Fine Art paper on Z3200, forgot what setting did I use up on this moment but the image quality wasn't so bad since HP inks has way better Dmax on matte paper than Epson's

Did you use APS to profile your paper or you use something else?

aaron

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 12:54:21 pm »

Hi aaron -

Not that impressive compared to Ilford Pearl, LOL...

Yes - profiled internally with the APS and have also printed the Atkinson chart.

Have done both the HP Hahnemuehl Smooth Fine Art and the HP Matte Litho-Realistic Paper as base for the profiles.

So far, the custom profile made from the Matte Litho is a tad better, it seems.

Must admit after printing the Atkinson chart on both profiles, the Epson UltraSmooth is looking better to me.

I would be interested in knowing what setting you used on the Velvet, however - I have a roll of that as well.

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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 08:39:33 pm »

Update:

I see NO difference whatsoever between the HP Hanemuehl and the Matte litho realistic profile prints.

Have begun making prints using the Custom Profile based Matte Litho Realistic setting and they look fine.

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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 03:08:32 am »

Check whether this PDF is still around, otherwise get it from the files section of Wide Inkjet Printers list at Yahoo:

"Working with Other Commercially-Available Papers HP Designjet Z3200 Photo Printer series"

Quad ink use and the highest ink limit are not found in the two media presets you mentioned. If the Epson coating can hold that amount.

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 12:43:21 pm »

Check whether this PDF is still around, otherwise get it from the files section of Wide Inkjet Printers list at Yahoo:

"Working with Other Commercially-Available Papers HP Designjet Z3200 Photo Printer series"

Quad ink use and the highest ink limit are not found in the two media presets you mentioned. If the Epson coating can hold that amount.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.


Hi Ernst -

So you are saying try using a quad ink preset?  Very interesting.  I do have that document and have posted it below for any who may be interested.  Out of curiosity, what base paper setting would you try to use with Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art Paper? 

I'm going to try Fine Art Paper>More Ink> that uses Quad inks, and see how that does.  Do you ever play with the "Global Inks" settings?

Thanks for your input as always -

Mark
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 12:55:48 pm by Mark Lindquist »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 02:20:08 pm »

With a high quality coating on an art paper I would at least try the media preset that lays down most ink and compare it to the next one in ink amount on gamut, Dmax (pro) and bleeding (con). Did you see that the HP Super Heavyweight Coated has the same description as Fine Art?

The Global Inks setting does not alter the ink load in a linear way in my opinion but acts like a gamma change so on Dmax it does not make changes but it might on Chroma.

Edit: There are OEM media presets for really heavy papers like HM Museum Etching or Museo Max on the HP download page that you could try too. I do not know whether the paper manufacturers can go beyond the maximum ink limits that HP already uses in some of its media presets. For Museum Etching I used the HM made preset but with a custom profile. Have to load a Canson BFK Rives one before the weekend.

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July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 02:43:36 pm by Ernst Dinkla »
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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2013, 10:54:34 am »

Good idea Ernst - will try the heavier paper loaded with the most ink and see how it goes - will report back my findings.  Yes I did notice that the HP Super Heavyweight has the same settings - interesting....

I wish there was some kind of central registry for all the papers and the settings used for creating profiles with the Z3200ps.  It would make life easier and less costly....

BTW - do you happen to know who makes Epson Velvet?

Also, just FYI and anyone else following, I have disabled the cutter in all the profiles for Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art Papers.  Directions on the roll expressly stress disabling the cutter due to lint from cutting and dulling of the cutter.

Thanks again -

Mark
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 10:58:50 am by Mark Lindquist »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2013, 03:16:41 pm »


I wish there was some kind of central registry for all the papers and the settings used for creating profiles with the Z3200ps.  It would make life easier and less costly....

BTW - do you happen to know who makes Epson Velvet?

Also, just FYI and anyone else following, I have disabled the cutter in all the profiles for Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art Papers.  Directions on the roll expressly stress disabling the cutter due to lint from cutting and dulling of the cutter.

Thanks again -

Mark

There is still a Z3100 Wiki page that could use some additions. Or add files to the archive of the Wide Inkjet Printers list :-)

The usual reference was Premier for all the Epson art papers but the most recent ones. I would say Somerset though given the weight and spectral plot.

Is that information on the cutter use not based on the old Epson models with the cutter near the head? I mean no update in that paper box made for the modern printer rotary cutters that are at least 4 inches away from the head.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 04:59:09 pm »

There is still a Z3100 Wiki page that could use some additions. Or add files to the archive of the Wide Inkjet Printers list :-)

The usual reference was Premier for all the Epson art papers but the most recent ones. I would say Somerset though given the weight and spectral plot.

Is that information on the cutter use not based on the old Epson models with the cutter near the head? I mean no update in that paper box made for the modern printer rotary cutters that are at least 4 inches away from the head.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Again, good points, Ernst.  Re: Cutter - yes, referring to Epson 7600 and 9600 printers.  So you're probably right, that the cutter could be used, no problem with the Z3200ps, however, I have noticed it is a bit "stringy" or "thready"  when cutting with a razor blade, and I notice that it does leave  debris behind on the cut edges.

So finally, I have done 4 tests, made 4 custom profiles based on several different paper types/settings for the UltraSmooth Fine Art Paper as discussed in this thread, and have come to conclude that TO MY EYE, the best setting, and profile, is the Fine Art Paper / More Ink, that prints Q inks, that you recommended.  For the most part, all the settings are similar and differences are subtle, which disturbs me, since I was looking for major easily noticeable differences.  It seems the paper will take the max ink, and does well with it, with no cockling or buckling.

So again, thank you for your input, you were right on the money once again.  I should just quit testing and just ask your opinion, LOL - you are batting very well, my friend.

Best -

Mark
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2013, 02:37:36 pm »

UPDATE

So I've made several prints - about 25 with the Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art Paper, using the FineArt Paper More Ink (Quad inks >Q) custom profile.

The results are excellent.  A few interesting observations:

1.  The use of extra ink loading causes the print to cockle in areas of deep coverage, BUT after drying, the cockle smooths out and disappears.

2.  It takes about 24 hours for the ink to cure, it seems.  After a day of drying and curing, the colors become bright and deep.  It's a weird thing, the inks seem to become embedded deeply into the paper, then gradually begin to shine when finally dry.  When the print first comes out, it looks dull and lifeless.

3.  Images with large areas of color, like a blue sky, seem to cause the paper to curl excessively.  The prints need to be pressed flat or de-curled.


I highly recommend the Fine Art Paper More Ink Setting for making a profile.  (Thanks to Ernst Dinkla for his recommendation).

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artobest

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Re: (UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 10:02:57 am »

I've found very few papers that give a better result with the Fine Art (More Ink) setting - test-print comparisons with the Less Ink option usually show better differentation in the shadows and richer midtones in the latter, especially with black and white. The first is to be expected, the second not so much. My instinct is to start with the Less Ink option and adjust ink limits upwards, but of course you lose the quad black advantage, however small that may be in practice.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: (UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 06:17:10 pm »

I've found very few papers that give a better result with the Fine Art (More Ink) setting - test-print comparisons with the Less Ink option usually show better differentation in the shadows and richer midtones in the latter, especially with black and white. The first is to be expected, the second not so much. My instinct is to start with the Less Ink option and adjust ink limits upwards, but of course you lose the quad black advantage, however small that may be in practice.

OK - interesting.  Have you tried Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art Paper with the "more ink" setting, ever?

I'm now on over a hundred prints on USFA and I can say, since I have come to understand how the drying method works over a 24 hour period - why on earth would I change?  If you read the previous posts, I did cover the "lesser ink" settings before finally settling on the richness and lushness of the "More Ink" on this paper and with MY work.

If you do landscapes with a lot of shadow detail, then no, perhaps this would not be for you.  But you won't know unless you try it, I guess.

Thanks for your input - appreciate the dialog.

-Mark
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artobest

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Re: (UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 12:14:42 pm »

No, I've never used that paper, and I didn't mean to imply the More Ink option isn't best for it - I was just making a general observation based on my experience of profiling other matte fine-art papers.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: (UPDATED) Another Epson Paper profile question for Z3200ps
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 01:36:39 pm »

No, I've never used that paper, and I didn't mean to imply the More Ink option isn't best for it - I was just making a general observation based on my experience of profiling other matte fine-art papers.

OK - gotcha - thanks for clarifying that.  Out of curiosity, which Fine Art Matte papers have you profiled and which have you found to be the best, or what you most preferred?

Have you ever profiled Epson Velvet?  I guess that's Somerset Velvet, or whatever...

I'd be interested in your experience with them.

Thanks -

Mark
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