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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 193286 times)

Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #400 on: July 29, 2013, 09:12:30 pm »

"Research Headquarters and Lab in Israel, Vlad.

Thanks,

Ken Richmond

SAP entities (Labs, etc) in Israel are no different from similar operations (including SAP Labs) in many other countries... Ken.
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #401 on: July 29, 2013, 09:14:37 pm »

Unfortunately this is the kind of thing that requires "humint," in other words, people on the spot.
that "kind of thing" requires career "humint" people willing not to bend to a political pressure from some a$$holes in a then current administration and not manipulate facts to suit Dick's dick, that's it.
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RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #402 on: July 29, 2013, 09:27:14 pm »

that "kind of thing" requires career "humint" people willing not to bend to a political pressure from some a$$holes in a then current administration and not manipulate facts to suit Dick's dick, that's it.

Eh? Better try English, Vlad. I haven't a clue what that means. I suspect you haven't either.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #403 on: July 29, 2013, 11:00:31 pm »

Since I speak both languages, Russ, allow me to translate. ;)

Vlad refers to Dick Cheney's arm twisting of CIA operatives to produce reports that would be ultimately used to justify the invasion.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #404 on: July 29, 2013, 11:24:40 pm »

Quote from: Ken Richmond link=topic=79991.msg651518#msg651518 date
Your premise, being based upon where data is located is totally irrelevant.  SAP has access to all of the data I've described for each of its clients, and most recently, if you read SAP's disclosures, they are now drilling down to retail.  Moreover, in larger organizations, SAP is embedded - permanently.    

Let me suggest, respectfully, that you take some time to learn something about the subject posed before responding to a question that wasn't addressed specifically to you.  We can learn from each other here, or toss out meaningless offensive one liners.  You never know who you run into, and in this particular case, you are running into a wall.  I review SAP's proposals for my clients.

Kent,

Apologies, I did not intend to be offensive. I happen to know about this domain a bit also, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

So would you mind explaining why my premise is irrelevant?

How and for what purpose does SAP access these data stored in on premise servers managed by their clients?

Is it done on a systematic basis of is it related to some particular circumpstances, like the need to debug an issue?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #405 on: July 30, 2013, 04:14:16 am »

Stamper, I don't know where you're getting this kind of crap, but it's well known that every intelligence agency in the free world was convinced Saddam had WMD. His own generals thought he had WMD and would use them.

There were inspectors in Iraq for months. They couldn't find any, not even a damp firecracker. You are now saying that every intelligence agency in the world was totally incompetent? Bush and Blair told lies and ignored their agency's. George Tennant took the fall for Bush but in the UK John Scarlett didn't. A lot of countries in Europe opposed the invasion because there wasn't a shred of evidence. Russ dancing on a pinhead doesn't impress the members of the forum...but I guess that is what you are good at.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #406 on: July 30, 2013, 05:12:45 am »

Stamper, I don't know where you're getting this kind of crap, but it's well known that every intelligence agency in the free world was convinced Saddam had WMD. His own generals thought he had WMD and would use them.

Right...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/9937516/Iraq-war-the-greatest-intelligence-failure-in-living-memory.html
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

It seems pretty clear that at least the entourage of President Bush and Prime Minister Blair did everything they could to pressure intelligence agencies to only retain information backing up the claims supporting their burning desire to attack Irak.

You cannot honnestly be thinking that this is simply a collective failure of intelligence agencies, right?

Or... if you do, how can you still trust the NSA blindly about what they do with information after having demonstrated such an amazing degree of incompetence?

Cheers,
Bernard

stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #407 on: July 30, 2013, 05:20:00 am »

Bernard that looks like "impressive" crap.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #408 on: July 30, 2013, 05:26:27 am »

Bernard that looks like "impressive" crap.

Yep, BBC generated crap tends to be more credible than others.  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a hero?
« Reply #409 on: July 30, 2013, 05:34:04 am »

Snowden is a distraction. The Prism Project is a tempest in a teapot. Your phone metadata has never been private. Your phone calls have never been private. There are thousands of people who work for the big corporation that sells you your phone service who can look at your phone bill anytime they want. They can listen in on your phone calls anytime they want.

I doubt that very much. Everything like that at telco's usually has an audit trail of who did what when. Just because you work in billing or dispute resolution or customer service does not give you the authority or right to look at anyone's bill at any time.

Similarly, they cannot listen to your phone call at any time they want.

Quote
A friend of mine once disputed being billed for an international phone call. She said she never made the call, so the phone company customer service representative pushed a button and played a recording of her phone call back to her, on the spot.

I've got to wonder whether that was part of the accepted ToS and if said friend could have sued the telco. To me this sounds like an unauthorised wiretap or there is something more going on here than we're being told - such as previous disputes from your friend with the telco so they put something in place to let them defend their bill. I cannot believe for one second that any/all telco's do this as a matter of course.

Quote
Now suddenly, when these corporations hand over a list of your phone calls to the NSA the sky is falling? I don't think so.

Imagine that you've disclosed your religion to facebook or that facebook is able to infer it. If facebook then provides that information about you to the government, are you trying to say that this is acceptable? What it your telco decided to provide the government with a GPS log from your cell phone, would you be ok with that too because it is just metadata?

The problem isn't that it is a list of phone calls but that there are corporations giving personal data about you away to the government without a warrant.
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dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a hero?
« Reply #410 on: July 30, 2013, 05:40:18 am »

You cannot honnestly be thinking that this is simply a collective failure of intelligence agencies, right?

I'm sure that the US government doesn't see it as a failure of the intelligence agencies as they got the justification that they wanted to engage in an invasion that they wanted.
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Ken Richmond

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #411 on: July 30, 2013, 06:31:19 am »

Kent,

Apologies, I did not intend to be offensive. I happen to know about this domain a bit also, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

So would you mind explaining why my premise is irrelevant?

How and for what purpose does SAP access these data stored in on premise servers managed by their clients?

Is it done on a systematic basis of is it related to some particular circumpstances, like the need to debug an issue?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard


In 2008, as SAP was introducing its "cloud based" solutions, it opened up a large complex/campus for its "lab" and "research" headquarters.  This is located in Ra'anana, which is the data mining/analytics capital of the wrorld.  SAP shares and partners with Nice-Actimize (Bank Systems-Trading Floor Risk Reduction through data mining/analytics); McKit (Data collection for Asset Life Ccyle Analysis); Kinor Knowledge Networds ("...Enables health care suppliers to integrate information and achieve compliance and to share data betwwen law enforcement and homeland security)G-Stat (Data mining events and individuals for predictions needed for risk assessment, inventory managment and planning based on consumer demand)Entopia (Knowledge management semantic mapping, searching and retrieval of web based information) Clear Forest (DIAL Software - which assimilates date of indefinite size identifying key terms to generate taxonomy with inter-relationships)
Each of these companies has a large facility in Ra'anana or Kiryat Aryeh.

Israel, for the obvious defensive reasons, has absolutely no regulatory restrictions on the acquisition of "private" information, or its use for non citizens, or citizens where state security might be involved, nor does it have any developed anti-trust law (having many companies with 50% or more market share) or foreign holdings disclosure requirements for foreign companies with operations in Israel.

SAP, in order to implement its "solutions" has access to all of it's customer data.  Most recently, SAP is "partnering" with Equity Funds where it promises predictive data to enhance the profitability.

SAP necessarily has access to all client data.

I've edited the remainder of this post because the confidentiality guarantees that I'm acquainted with are US based and it would be unfair/unwise to generalize or address extra-territorial interpretations for which I'm neither licensed or qualified.

Thanks,

Ken Richmond

« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 08:09:00 am by Ken Richmond »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #412 on: July 30, 2013, 07:02:35 am »

In 2008, as SAP was introducing its "cloud based" solutions, it opened up a large complex/campus for its "lab" and "research" headquarters.  

SAP, in order to implement its "solutions" has access to all of it's customer data.  Most recently, SAP is "partnering" with Equity Funds where it promises predictive data to enhance the profitability.

SAP necessarily has access to all client data.

Hello again Ken,

This applies to those customer who have decided to trust their data to SAP cloud based solutions only, correct?

Do you have data showing what pourcentage of large SAP customers have chosen this option as opposed to using SAP with an on premise server hosted in their premises?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ken Richmond

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #413 on: July 30, 2013, 07:51:46 am »

I have no access to that information.

Thanks,

Ken Richmond
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #414 on: July 30, 2013, 08:41:05 am »

I have no access to that information.

Ken,

Without this information my understanding is that you cannot really know to what extend SAP could actually be the potential big vilain you told us about in an earlier post.

Cheers,
Bernard

RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #415 on: July 30, 2013, 10:39:16 am »

Vlad refers to Dick Cheney's arm twisting of CIA operatives to produce reports that would be ultimately used to justify the invasion.
Bush and Blair told lies and ignored their agency's (sic).
It seems pretty clear that at least the entourage of President Bush and Prime Minister Blair did everything they could to pressure intelligence agencies to only retain information backing up the claims supporting their burning desire to attack Irak.

You cannot honnestly (sic) be thinking that this is simply a collective failure of intelligence agencies, right?

Well, I see there's been a lot of posting while I slept.

I give up. Propaganda mills thrive on gullibility and it's clear The Coffee Corner is providing an intensely receptive audience.

All I can do at this point is echo Wellington: "If you (guys) believe that you will believe anything."

I'm outta here!
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Chris_Brown

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #417 on: July 30, 2013, 02:07:16 pm »

So much for the theory that publicly disclosing information amounts to "aiding the enemy":

Manning Is Acquitted of 'Aiding the Enemy'

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #418 on: July 30, 2013, 02:08:29 pm »

http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/life-in-the-twilight/?singlepage=true

Please do not post links without telling us what's the point of posting it, the gist, or, as a minimum, what it is about.

popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #419 on: July 30, 2013, 02:24:34 pm »

So much for the theory that publicly disclosing information amounts to "aiding the enemy":

Manning Is Acquitted of 'Aiding the Enemy'

That charge was always a stretch, IMO.
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