Canon 6D

[deejjjaaaa]

http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos6d

[heinrichvoelkel]

actually this camera got no reason to be mentioned. the lack of innovation and some creative phantasy at Canon is devastating and depressing.

[dreed]

3 or 4 years ago, this camera would have been exciting.

Now, who cares?

"Next"!

[kers]

It seems more logical to buy a mark 5d II? Or the price point must a about 400 hundred lower...

[BernardLanguillier]

Did Canon announce price and availability?

Cheers,
Bernard

[dreed]

Did Canon announce price and availability?

The announced price was USD$2099.

As for availability, the goal is before Christmas but with Canon's ability to deliver this year, it could just as easily be February 2013 before they appear on the shelves.

[heinrichvoelkel]

"Pricing and Availability

The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $2,099.00 and it will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon’s EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $2,899.00. Both configurations are expected to be available in December 2012."

[dreed]

"Pricing and Availability

The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $2,099.00 and it will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon’s EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $2,899.00. Both configurations are expected to be available in December 2012."

"The D600 will have a list price of $2,099 body only, or $2,699 with the 24-85mm F3.5-5.6 lens and will be available from September 18th."

The 6D is going to be a very difficult sell to anyone that doesn't already have full-frame Canon lenses. By the looks of it, retail versions of the 6D won't appear until December 2012, so it is unlikely that any websites will have full reviews on it before Christmas this year (part of the plan so that people don't know what it is they're buying?)

With this feature set and price, this would appear to be "Dead On Arrival" unless you've got a xx0D Canon APS-C DSLR with "L" lenses and you don't want to dump it all and change brands (to Nikon.)

Is this camera evidence that Canon is now simply milking its already established customer base for more money?

[BernardLanguillier]

The thing I find most puzzling here is that Canon now produces 3 FF sensors with 18, 20 and 22mp. They all have mostly the same iso range, DR,...

When the profits made by winning CE companies are mostly driven by cost control, itself resulting mostly from components commonalization, the Canon line up seems odd from an engineering standpoint.

Cheers,
Bernard

[fike]

This is not dead on arrival or any such thing. YET.

The key determining factors for me will be whether canon has managed to improve it's low light performance and dynamic range.  

Outside of those attributes, the 6D is all just me-too features.  At this point, short of marketing an open camera platform with third party apps, the general features of a decent DSLR are pretty well established.  Assuming they don't break something that currently works, what matters is performance: mostly sensor and focus.  Of course this is a bit reductive, but we are talking about an established brand with an admirable (if somewhat boring) legacy of usability and durability.

I like the built-in GPS. I don't like the reduced focus points, but it is unclear how this will translate into real world performance. More isn't always better, so if that one center focus point is really freaking great at isolating a brown bird flying in front of brown trees, I may forgive the spec reduction.

It will be interesting to see how big and heavy (or small and light) this body seems compared to the other full frame cameras. This actually does appear to be substantially lighter weight than the others.  Between the weight and GPS, this could end up as a really great travel camera.

[RFPhotography]

Not sure why people seem to be dumping on this camera but didn't dump on the Nikon D600.  

[Hulyss]

I personally dump on both. Don't like the way taken by FF industry.

[Bryan Conner]

The 6D is going to be a very difficult sell to anyone that doesn't already have full-frame Canon lenses. By the looks of it, retail versions of the 6D won't appear until December 2012, so it is unlikely that any websites will have full reviews on it before Christmas this year (part of the plan so that people don't know what it is they're buying?)

With this feature set and price, this would appear to be "Dead On Arrival" unless you've got a xx0D Canon APS-C DSLR with "L" lenses and you don't want to dump it all and change brands (to Nikon.)

Is this camera evidence that Canon is now simply milking its already established customer base for more money?

Do you have any facts to back up what you are saying, or are you merely making negative speculations?

As far as your final question above:  what purpose other than making money from the customer base do companies have?  Other than expanding the customer base?

I, for one, am very interested in this camera.  Some of the new features as well as the proposed high iso capability look really interesting to me.  I will wait on a thorough review, whenever that may come.

[BernardLanguillier]

Not sure why people seem to be dumping on this camera but didn't dump on the Nikon D600.  

Mostly because the D600 is keeping more important photographic features from his bigger brother the D800.

- 100% viewfinder
- 2 memory card slots
- a better speced AF
- uncompressed video
- it is a real camera with a firm availability 3 days after announcement, not another paper launch.

Dpreview has a longer list... and we can probably add a better sensor based on recent releases from both companies and the available high ISO samples.

Cheers,
Bernard

[RFPhotography]

Mostly because the D600 is keeping more important photographic features from his bigger brother the D800.

- 100% viewfinder
- 2 memory card slots
- a better speced AF
- uncompressed video
- it is a real camera with a firm availability 3 days after announcement, not another paper launch.

Dpreview has a longer list... and we can probably add a better sensor based on recent releases from both companies and the available high ISO samples.

Cheers,
Bernard

No Nikon fanboyism there. 

It's pretty clear that Canon and Nikon have different philosophies when it comes to their respective product lines.  Nikon brought out an 'affordable' FX camera and now Canon has announced an 'affordable' full frame camera.  The Canon has some features that other Canon cameras don't such as built in wi-fi and geotagging.  There really are few Canon cameras that have ever had full viewfinder coverage.  The 5 series only got it with the Mk III.  Other than that, the only cameras that have had it are the 1 series.  The uncompressed video is a red herring because, as far as I know, no Canon has had that.  Uncompressed video is not an 'important photographic feature' if you don't do video (a lot of people don't). 

[BJL]

This is not dead on arrival or any such thing. YET.

The key determining factors for me will be whether canon has managed to improve it's low light performance and dynamic range.

That sums it up nicely: with the 6D and D600 at the same price, Canon continues to lose the "spec. sheet war" to team Nikon-Sony, and the things I can see that will help this camera to succeed are
1. A major improvement in DR over even quite recent Canon sensors (is the choice of a lower 20MP resolution done to improve the per pixel DR numbers and so impress people who look at per pixel specs regardless of pixel count?)
2. Somehow having better performance at high ISO even if DR at low to moderate ISO speed is inferior.
3. People with reasons to prefer Canon EF-mount lenses over Nikon F-mount; either owning a lot of them, or judging that the Canon lens system offers better choices for their needs.
(I omit "blind respect to the prestige of a particular brand", though that is always good for some sales.)

Right now, I suspect that #3 will be a more effective argument than the other two, but I await the reviews.

[shadowblade]

Out of Canon's recent run of relatively lame offerings (compared to the competition), this is the lamest yet.

Can't wait for the 46MP monster, if it ever comes...

[BJL]

No Nikon fanboyism there. 

... There really are few Canon cameras that have ever had full viewfinder coverage.  The 5 series only got it with the Mk III.  Other than that, the only cameras that have had it are the 1 series.  The uncompressed video is a red herring because, as far as I know, no Canon has had that.  Uncompressed video is not an 'important photographic feature' if you don't do video (a lot of people don't). 

1. I do not see how it is "fanboyism" to mention facts that are advantages of the D600 over the 6D, and indeed attempting to dismiss the relevance of those advantages seems more subject to that accusation.
2. The disadvantages in viewfinder and video capabilities are not mitigated at all by the fact that previous Canon models also had these disadvantages relative to the competition (not only Nikon but also Sony in recent years.)
3. As to the "different priorities" argument, I suppose it is a matter of personal preference which is more important:
- the D600's better AF, video, and VF, somewhat higher resolution, and likely better DR (on recent trends), or
- The 6D's geo-tagging and Wi-Fi without needing an add-on unit. (Are these really the only advantages you can mention? I think I made a better case with "likely better high ISO performance and lens system".)

[BernardLanguillier]

No Nikon fanboyism there. 

Just answering a reasonnable question in an objective way, my statements are a copy/paste of Dpreview conclusions.

And yes, I agree that the 6D is better at geo-tagging and at wireless communication, but those 2 aspects can be added to the D600 for those needing then, you cannot add a 100% viewfinder, a second SD card,... to the 6D.

As you apparently use a D700 and don't consider the D800 a valid successor, I would expect you to be utterly sensitive to the importance of those features?

Cheers,
Bernard

[RFPhotography]

1. I do not see how it is "fanboyism" to mention facts that are advantages of the D600 over the 6D, and indeed attempting to dismiss the relevance of those advantages seems more subject to that accusation.
2. The disadvantages in viewfinder and video capabilities are not mitigated at all by the fact that previous Canon models also had these disadvantages relative to the competition (not only Nikon but also Sony in recent years.)
3. As to the "different priorities" argument, I suppose it is a matter of personal preference which is more important:
- the D600's better AF, video, and VF, somewhat higher resolution, and likely better DR (on recent trends), or
- The 6D's geo-tagging and Wi-Fi without needing an add-on unit. (Are these really the only advantages you can mention? I think I made a better case with "likely better high ISO performance and lens system".)

1.  I shoot Nikon, so no fanboyism here.
2.  Whether the viewfinder is an advantage or a disadvantage wasn't the point of my comment.  My point was, simply, that this is not something many Canons have ever had so noting it as a material difference doesn't, to me, seem relevant.  Disadvantages in video?  Based on what I've read it seems pretty well settled that the quality of Canon's video is superior to Nikon's.  I've not yet seen a compelling argument that the uncompressed video from a Nikon is markedly superior to the compressed video. 
3.  D600's better AF?  How can that be determined when the camera isn't even available for serious testing yet?  "Likely better DR" is a complete assumption.  I'm not saying it won't have better range than the Canon but making such statements without actual data, even basing on recent trends, isn't valid analysis.
4.  Unlike many people here, I don't spend countless hours poring over camera data, cruising from website to website looking for technical minutiae, pixel-peeping or otherwise examining in excruciating detail things which, in real world, practical shooting won't make a big difference.  The infinitesimal differences in SNR for the 5D Mk III and D800 don't make a hill of beans difference.  Even the ~2.5 stops of drange at base ISO (according to DxO Mark, according to Imaging Resource it's less than 1 stop, but I grant the measures are done differently) isn't a huge concern because I know there are ways to work around that.  Lens system is a matter of preference.  There are Canon lenses that perform better than the like Nikon and vice versa.  There are third party lenses that, in some cases, perform better than both.