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Author Topic: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E  (Read 17133 times)

Mike Sellers

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Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« on: July 29, 2012, 12:14:46 pm »

My need is to print very large prints so between these two cameras which one would produce the best looking file for large prints?
Mike
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uaiomex

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 04:05:12 pm »

Pop corn please!
Eduardo

My need is to print very large prints so between these two cameras which one would produce the best looking file for large prints?
Mike
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kers

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 06:27:39 pm »

Even after popcorn the d800E produces a 36MP image and the H3D 22mp a 22MP image...

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theguywitha645d

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 06:55:32 pm »

Even after popcorn the d800E produces a 36MP image and the H3D 22mp a 22MP image...



Just a 28% difference in resolving power. Perhaps more, perhaps less, depending how the difference in aspect ratio affects the final image. I print with a 44" printer and no one can tell which images come from a 22MP P25+ back and a 40MP Pentax 645D--at 100% the Pentax obviously shows more, but even printed to 44" roll paper, the printer does not show all the detail in the file. Pixel resolution is vastly overrated.
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Mike Sellers

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 02:16:37 pm »

Thanks 645 Guy for the helpful post.
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uaiomex

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 09:35:42 pm »

Because sensor size is also part of the equation.
Eduardo


Just a 28% difference in resolving power. Perhaps more, perhaps less, depending how the difference in aspect ratio affects the final image. I print with a 44" printer and no one can tell which images come from a 22MP P25+ back and a 40MP Pentax 645D--at 100% the Pentax obviously shows more, but even printed to 44" roll paper, the printer does not show all the detail in the file. Pixel resolution is vastly overrated.
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FredBGG

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 01:02:06 am »

Because sensor size is also part of the equation.
Eduardo



Sensor size does make a difference, but it's hot really that big of a difference because the 22MP MF sensors are still quite small.

48.9 x 36.7 is not really a big difference from 24x36. While MFD manufactures like to refer to their sensors as being twice the size of a FF 35mm DRLR sensor they are referring to surface area, not linear size. Resolution and depth of field are all dependent on linear functions not area.

So really for issues like diffraction and resolution you need to look at linear difference.

Going from a 36 x 24 to a 48.9 x 36 is actually only a 25.385 %  linear increase.

This will only improve diffraction a theoretical amount of 25%

Shallow depth of field is often touted as an advantage with larger sensors as is better bokeh. However if you keep in mind that Nikon and Canon make much faster lenses this is a moot point and marketing spin.

If larger sensor or capture area is important your better off going with film that has much larger negatives.

5x7 and 6x8 cm cameras will have a visual look that is hard to match with MFD, especially if you consider that the lenses available are as fast
as MFD lenses, but with larger negatives.

For example Phase one's fastest 645 lens is 80mm at f2.8 yet their RZ67 110mm is also a 2.8.

Then there is also the issue of iris blades that drastically effect bokeh if you are not wide open.

Phase One Schneider use 5 blades and have pentagon shaped artifacts off out of focus highlights.

Nikon's 85mm 1.4 for example uses a 9 blade circular iris.

Fuji gx680 uses 8 blade circular or almost circular iris.
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 10:53:40 am »

Because sensor size is also part of the equation.
Eduardo



But sensor size does not indicate which would produce "better" prints. That is a subjective call.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 11:05:56 am »

For example Phase one's fastest 645 lens is 80mm at f2.8 yet their RZ67 110mm is also a 2.8.

Why would you say the 80mm is the fastest Phase One lens?

Other lenses that work great on the Phase One 645 DF are as fast or faster (depending on if you mean absolute aperture or aperture relative to focal length):
- Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS
- Phase One 150mm f/2.8 D
- Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 (older manual focus lens)
- Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 (older manual focus lens)

Hard to beat the rendering of the 150mm D. Beautiful lens.

yaya

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 11:45:57 am »

Why would you say the 80mm is the fastest Phase One lens?

Other lenses that work great on the Phase One 645 DF are as fast or faster (depending on if you mean absolute aperture or aperture relative to focal length):
- Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS
- Phase One 150mm f/2.8 D
- Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 (older manual focus lens)
- Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 (older manual focus lens)

Hard to beat the rendering of the 150mm D. Beautiful lens.

What he said plus all the V series lenses inc. the FE 110/f2 if you're into paper thin DOF....probably the shallowest DOF this side of 6x7...
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BJL

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Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E: quality of sensor technogy matters too
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 02:23:27 pm »

Because sensor size is also part of the equation.
And so is the level of the technlogy in the sensors, like the recent Nikon-Sony sensors using column-parallel on-sensor ADC which have far lower dark noise and better dynamic range than the sensors in any current DMF back, which all still rely on CCD technology that has barely improved in the last decade. It is hard to use the mantra of "biger sensors are always better" when the smaller sensor has both more pixels and better per pixel performance on most measures.

But then lens quality is also part of the equation: as with sensors, this should favor the larger format, unless the far larger R&D budgets of the 35mm format makers give them a big enough technological lead in this area too. This is a far messier comparison, which I will leave to others.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2012, 02:29:09 pm »

+1

In all probability the most important factor.

Best regards
Erik

The one being used by the person who has a clue.
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FredBGG

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 06:09:53 pm »

Why would you say the 80mm is the fastest Phase One lens?

Other lenses that work great on the Phase One 645 DF are as fast or faster (depending on if you mean absolute aperture or aperture relative to focal length):
- Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS
- Phase One 150mm f/2.8 D
- Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 (older manual focus lens)
- Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 (older manual focus lens)

Hard to beat the rendering of the 150mm D. Beautiful lens.



Why do I say that the fastest lens is the 80mm 2.8.... well because there are no other Phase or Mamiya lenses in production that are faster than 2.8.

The Mamiya 80mm 1.9 is out of production and most copies you can find are hazy today due to bonding between the elements degrading.
I looked at many copies before I found a good one. It is also far from sharp wide open.

Manual focus on the DF body with the 80mm 1.9 is hit and miss. Focus confirmation pretty much useless.
One really needs a high magnification and bright waist level finder to accurately shoot wide open with fast MF lenses.

For the best shallow depth of field look the D800 with the 85mm 1.4G or 200mm 2.0G is the best way to go.
Very fast and accurate focusing with both autofocus and live view manual focusing. Both of these being
faster in comparison to any current MF offering. Pair that with the infinitely superior focusing of the D800 in both off center focusing points and both manual and auto focusing right to the corners in live view.

Regarding the Mamiya 150mm 2.8D.... yup it's the best Mamiya has to offer. Very nice look to it. It does stand out from the rest of the Mamiya Phase lineup. It does however suffer from a fair bit of vignetting wide open. Something I actually don't mind.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 06:23:40 pm by FredBGG »
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FredBGG

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 06:19:13 pm »

What he said plus all the V series lenses inc. the FE 110/f2 if you're into paper thin DOF....probably the shallowest DOF this side of 6x7...

I had the Hasselblad 110mm f2. Brilliant lens, but really hard to focus without a bright high magnification waist level finder.
I found it pretty much unusable with the DF body. Focus confirmation did not work accurately enough and no good for focus and recompose.

I used to use it on a Hasselblad V body with the very rare moving loup viewfinder. Very nice.

I also used a 110mm that was modified with a perfectly round iris replacement that too less than half a stop off.
The result was really really nice. It too away most of the funny buisness of wide open, without introducing the artifacts of the 5 blade iris.
I never used my 110 other than wide open.
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FredBGG

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2012, 06:27:09 pm »

The one being used by the person who has a clue.

And how about when the one with a clue compares both?

And what about the one used by a person who has a clue and spends the small fortune he or she saved by going with the less expensive option
to travel to some amazing location.......  ;)
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dchew

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 06:43:37 pm »

...So Mike, there you have it.  Both will produce stunning large prints.  Your decision between these two systems should not be based on which one you think makes better big prints.

Instead your decision should be made on mundane features that - surprise - haven't changed much in the last several decades.  All in context of your preferred workflow, your subject matter, your shooting style, and your priorities:
Cost, lens selection, control layout, specific features, live view, viewfinder, weight, what fits in the hand, format, and maybe most important - which one gets your creative juices flowing!

Ciao,
Dave
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FredBGG

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 08:33:45 pm »

...So Mike, there you have it.  Both will produce stunning large prints.  Your decision between these two systems should not be based on which one you think makes better big prints.

Instead your decision should be made on mundane features that - surprise - haven't changed much in the last several decades.  All in context of your preferred workflow, your subject matter, your shooting style, and your priorities:
Cost, lens selection, control layout, specific features, live view, viewfinder, weight, what fits in the hand, format, and maybe most important - which one gets your creative juices flowing!

Ciao,
Dave

You left out two things that are important.

Dynamic range and reliability.

Dynamic range is better with the D800.

As far as reliability goes ... my experience has been that both high end Canons and high end Nikons are hard to beat.
Not only are they more reliable, but repair service is less expensive and quicker. Bugs get sorted out very quickly thanks to the massive  user base and the resources that these bigger companies can throw at a bug.

Then if you look at reliability on a fixed budget there is no comparison.

For the price of one MFDB camera you can buy from 2 to 10 35mm DSLRs

With the d800 you can work 4 times as fast, but also as slow as you want.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2012, 01:25:29 am »

As far as reliability goes ...

Nothing beats the ability of own 1 or 2 back ups of your main body with the exact same specs. Considering the price of the D800E, this is a no brainer.

Add to this the ability to shoot to a back up card in camera and you reduce risk by a tremendous margin during important shoots.

Cheers,
Bernard

Mike Sellers

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2012, 01:51:19 pm »

I do nature photography. I am represented by an art licensing agency and one stock agency. In the last few years I have tried the Canon 5D MKII,Contax 645 film and Sony a850. I really liked the ease of use with the Contax. The more buttons,menus and switches there are the more confused I get. I have been looking at medium format digital but have also been looking at the SD1. I read a report on the Sigma SD1 that the files have about the same IQ as 30mp medium format? Anyway,I want another camera for the upcoming fall color season.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad H3D 22mp VS Nikon 800E
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2012, 03:08:40 pm »

Hi,

It depends a lot on the lens you put in front, how you work and if you have a perfectly aligned sample. The area where Nikon has an advantage is live view and contrast detecting AF, plus flexibility regarding lenses. You have a choice of AF lenses from Nikon and some very fine Zeiss lenses.

My guess is that Nikon would have the edge. But I have tested neither, so I don't know.

Marc McCalmont who is a frequent poster here on this forums seems very satisfied with his D800E.

Best regards
Erik

My need is to print very large prints so between these two cameras which one would produce the best looking file for large prints?
Mike
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Erik Kaffehr
 
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