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Author Topic: Mac "Big Iron" rumors  (Read 43612 times)

lfeagan

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2012, 11:58:16 pm »

Craig, what is in your current hackintosh build, if you don't mind.

For me it goes like this
Case: SuperMicro SC743TQ-865B-SQ
Mobo: SuperMicro X8DA3
CPU: 2x X5550 (Quad-core 2.66GHz)
Mem: 6x4GB
Disk: 1xSamsung SSD 830 512GB, 2xIntel 160GB RAID0, 4x WD Caviar Black 1TB
Video: PNY GTX 580

What motherboard were you thinking of for your E5 build? I am thinking of using the SuperMicro X9DA7 for my next hackintosh. Someone has the X9DAI running Lion, so getting it working shouldn't be much of an issue. I haven't quite decided on the right balance of cores to clock for the CPU selection. I am thinking 6 cores/socket seems like the right place to be. The 8core/socket options have the clock drop like a rock.
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Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
Fuji: X-Pro 1, 14mm f/2.8, 18mm f/2.0, 35mm f/1.4

tived

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2012, 06:01:38 am »

where can i find a good guide for a Hackingtos - It would be interesting to see a OSX run at 4+ Ghz on 12 cores+12HT and 96Gb of ram.

As for Building your own PC, no its not easy to build a good solid PC. You need to have knowledge and know what works with what, just like photography.

I can understand Bernard's wants for support, afterall, we are photographers and computer techs, even though sometimes it feels the other way around. It definately doesn't hurt to know your way around in your computer box.

I am fortunate to have good friends with computer shops, and access to their resources, but its sometimes time consuming. As I also provide support for other photogs in their digital endeavours, I often see photogs struggle with their systems in particular Mac users, as soon as it does not behave as expected its arms up in the air and scream!!!! It happens a lot - despite popular perception that Mac's don't fail, they do as lovely as they are, they do fail, as does PC's they are just not as greacious looking ;-)

Having support is the single most important thing for your computer - down time is expensive, because it always happens when you most need to get something done.

Just going back to some of the previous threads, where the mention of RAID and NAS.

RAID is great for improved speed when using RAID-0, but no redundancy - you need to know that if your RAID-0 goes down its hard to repair, but it can be repaired!!!! and the data can be recovered.

RAID with redundancy, every other RAID but RAID-0, is a good way for a single drive failure to protect your data, there are RAID configs for multiple Disk redundancy as well. However it should not be seen as a Backup.

I do setup Macpro's with two WD RE4's in RAID-1 to give the client two copies of their working data should one fail, but I still insist and impliment secondary Backup devices and strategies, where the client have at least 4 copies, two on side and two off site.

This brings me to NAS, Network Attached Storage, to me the advantage of this is that multiple computers can access this data at anytime and should your main machine fail you can still access this via a second computer. However, not all NAS are created equal, and most are really slow, in particular when you are trying to retrive whole multi-gigabyte jobs.
I don't own myself one of these units but I would highly recommend Synology NAS drives, and get a 8-drive unit, this can also be daisy-chained to multiple units later should your need require this. I know that a lot of photo have gotten the Drobo bug, and though its not a bad solution, it is by no means a great one. Its slow, and rebuild times takes forever. but again alot of Photog/Mac shop are flogging them to photogs who know no better.

So have raid in your box, know what the raid level is providing you and have NAS storage as your back up, plus have another backup external to your premises.

Mac users - welcome to the world of computing! :-) let us know if you need help and we will try to give you the best advise possible at the time.

All the best

Henrik

PS: Macpro R.I.P. you may not have been a fast contender, but certainly the prettiest :-)
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Josh-H

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2012, 07:25:39 am »

Quote
RAID is great for improved speed when using RAID-0, but no redundancy - you need to know that if your RAID-0 goes down its hard to repair, but it can be repaired!!!! and the data can be recovered.

RAID with redundancy, every other RAID but RAID-0, is a good way for a single drive failure to protect your data, there are RAID configs for multiple Disk redundancy as well. However it should not be seen as a Backup.

Personally, I like and run RAID 0+1 - across 4 drives giving speed and redundancy. Easily accomplished in a mac pro with a raid card and the 4 drive slots. Using 4 x 3TB drives gives 6TB of usable space. Not quite as quick as RAID0 striping all 4 drives. But its a good compromise between speed and redundancy and certainly faster than just raid 1.

Of course, back up to other external drives and off site a must.

The big problem with external NAS is they are in the majority dog slow (unless you spend plenty on a fibre channel NAS or SAN) making them generally unsuitable for photography applications where fast read and write speeds are desired with large files.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:28:37 am by Josh-H »
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dturina

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2012, 10:07:47 am »

I really don't understand this potential "fear" of switching, in a way or another. I read that many times everywhere.

I think there is a lot of hysteria to be honest. It sounds like a shy virgen girl that sees for the first time a man's ....
Come on!

In this forum, most of the users are quite highly trained and technically skilled on complex softwares etc...and you would tell me that a switching could be difficult?

In a day maximum you're done with the adaptations.


I have no problem with "switching", but with combining multiple platforms. For instance, I use apple mail with MailStewartPro on my laptop, to manage some 14 years of email archives. I can trivially migrate the database itself to windows, but I would lose the auto-import of the new stuff. If my desktop is a mac, I can do things like installing the mysql-server on a linux box somewhere on the LAN and feed new mail into it from both the desktop and the laptop, using mail seamlessly on one or the other. With windows on desktop I can't really do that. That's just one example that I can think of right now, but I honestly have very little experience with windows since XP, because I migrated to linux instead of vista.
The other drawback of windows, for me, is that it has a non-unix command line, so that's another reason why I would dislike having it on my box.
So no, *I* wouldn't be done with adaptations in a day, because for me it's not just a matter of having the close icon on the right side of a window.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 10:19:08 am by dturina »
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Danijel

Steve Weldon

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2012, 05:47:53 pm »

Personally, I like and run RAID 0+1 - across 4 drives giving speed and redundancy. Easily accomplished in a mac pro with a raid card and the 4 drive slots. Using 4 x 3TB drives gives 6TB of usable space. Not quite as quick as RAID0 striping all 4 drives. But its a good compromise between speed and redundancy and certainly faster than just raid 1.

Of course, back up to other external drives and off site a must.

The big problem with external NAS is they are in the majority dog slow (unless you spend plenty on a fibre channel NAS or SAN) making them generally unsuitable for photography applications where fast read and write speeds are desired with large files.
The landscape for available consumer 'affordable' NAS units has changed for the better in recent months.  There are some very good 4-6 drive systems available in the $800 range (less drives) which will transfer at approx 100mbps over a gigalan with common 3.5" platter drives.  This is faster than most laptop drives and pretty average for a run of the mill internal hard drive.. so for under $2000 you can end up with a 15gb 5 drive system which would be decent for photography applications.  Or in other words, it wouldn't drive you nuts if this was your main storage.  And the extra features of the better units add additional value.
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tived

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2012, 08:56:24 pm »

just to add to the NAS, what makes some the differences in  them IMHO, is their processing power, which gives them the ability to push the data through the cat-5/6 cable, and ofcourse the disk rpm.

but I have also noted that when hooking a NAS up to different speced computers, that the NAS transfer differs, as in the faster the host is the better the transfer speed.
I would again here like to promote the Synology (and I don't own one and i am not affiliated) all I have done is set them up for clients, they are your 800-1000 units for 8disk driveless units and they can boost between 100-200mb/sec over cat5/6 definately worth a thought, and one that I will be getting myself as soon as the funds are available.
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BJL

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2012, 09:17:27 pm »

For those who decide to believe and can afford to wait one year, this may be good news:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1167247/cook_apple_planning_professional_mac_for_2013.html
I am guessing that it is a matter of Apple waiting on Intel to combine Thunderbolt support with its new generation of Xeon processors. And maybe some crazy high resolution graphics support for a 27" or bigger "Retina" display.
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lfeagan

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2012, 11:53:43 pm »

I own a Synology, have used it for two years, and adore it. I practically gush about it and recommend it regularly to friends. I store photos and all sorts of other media on it and share with TVs, Roku, computers, etc for easy access. I have gigabit Ethernet and can saturate a single port.

On the ThunderBolt front, just in case anyone was thinking that would be the road to nirvana to expand their notebook's IO subsystem, sadly it appears that random access pays a heavy penalty due to lack of NCQ. I read an article at Tom's Hardware that gave a good overview. Thankfully, sequential access fairs pretty well. There are also some pointers on how things scale when you have more than one device on the port. Worthwhile reading if you think you will be using ThunderBolt in the next few years for your storage needs.
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Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
Fuji: X-Pro 1, 14mm f/2.8, 18mm f/2.0, 35mm f/1.4

tived

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2012, 10:13:03 pm »

Thanks for sharing that Ifeagan,
that is really interesting regarding the scaling with multiple devices attached.

thanks

Henrik
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mediumcool

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2012, 04:04:11 am »

It’s worth remembering that Apple is a hardware company which provides its own OS (Macintosh computers do permit Windows to be installed, and Apple supplies one means of facilitating that).

Given what Apple has charged for its OS in recent years, the hardware is definitely where any profit is made (I have heard that Microsoft will be charging around $85US for each bundled copy of Windows RT). And as has been pointed out, installing and using MacOSX on any hardware not made or authorised by Apple is illegal. As a professional, I make sure there is no illegal software on my computers (all Macintoshes BTW).

So I find the touting of “Hackintoshes” both immoral and rather unprofessional.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2012, 06:05:16 am »

It’s worth remembering that Apple is a hardware company which provides its own OS (Macintosh computers do permit Windows to be installed, and Apple supplies one means of facilitating that).

Given what Apple has charged for its OS in recent years, the hardware is definitely where any profit is made (I have heard that Microsoft will be charging around $85US for each bundled copy of Windows RT). And as has been pointed out, installing and using MacOSX on any hardware not made or authorised by Apple is illegal. As a professional, I make sure there is no illegal software on my computers (all Macintoshes BTW).

So I find the touting of “Hackintoshes” both immoral and rather unprofessional.

1.  So?  This matters why?

2.  Huh?  ANY profit?  No.  $85 as you mention Microsoft charging could be a very significant portion of their profit.  I wouldn't be surprised if they make less than $85 on certain Apple hardware configurations.  IDC reports Apple sold 1.4 million PC's in the US during 2011 and 15.4 million Ipads.  At $85 per unit that's over a billion dollars more than ANY.. Now compute global sales.

If you think the majority of this was Ipads.. and that if they didn't have their own software, and say marketed an Android tablet instead (I know, to some of you that's unthinkable and akin to blasphemy).. do you think they'd have sold 15.4 million (40 million globally) units?  I don't.  They'd be somewhere in the Android tablet makers herd with maybe a 1-2 million sales globally.   It's hard to argue their operating systems don't result in most of their profit.  Again, a far way from "any.."

3.  Umm.. I suppose in the loosest sense of the word.  Very loose.  Kinda like tearing the tag off your mattress don't you think?

3.  I find this statement hostile and almost combative.  It's certainly an insult to the professionals here who rely on custom built machines not offered by Apple to meet their business needs.  More like a slap in the face.  I'm shocked you would judge other forum members in such a negative manner.  Sir, I urge you to reconsider your words.  I would hate to see this thread denigrate from such an incendiary statement.

As to the quality of your post:  I find it inaccurate and judgemental, but often inflammatory posts are such.  It also doesn't consider our first amendment rights.  More, if you give any thought at all to the subject you'll find "hackentosh" builds are almost always built to provide a product not available from Apple and the users do indeed support Apple through their purchase of the OS for the build.  The only impact to Apple would be increased OS sales.   And I don't know a single Hackentosh user who also isn't using a MBP, Ipad, Mini, or at least several other Apple products where they are more appropriate for their tasks.  If you want to "judge" someone, then judge Apple who for years hasn't offered the most popular desktop CPU's (only mobile or server editions) in recent times.  What a disservice to their loyal customer base!

I urge you to give more thought to a subject before making such baseless attacks.  It helps keep a more friendly forum and it would represent you in a more positive light.
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dturina

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2012, 10:23:01 am »

Legality of a hackintosh doesn't concern me much, as it is a very minor breach of EULA, at best. However, the very point of a Mac is that the OS is designed for a very small number of well tested components, and because of that it works better than other stuff, Windows included. The fundamental weakness of Windows is not being able to optimize software and hardware the way Apple can, making both.

Since Lion and Windows 7 seem to be very similar in most respects, and Windows is better suited to working with a wide pool of components from various vendors, this makes a hackintosh an inferior solution, by virtue of the fact that it's not doing what it's designed for. So basically I don't see why one would go that way - of you want to assemble your own machine, put Windows or Linux on it and problem solved. If you want something that works out of the box and has no compatibility issues, buy a Mac.
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kers

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2012, 10:28:48 am »

It’s worth remembering that Apple is a hardware company which provides its own OS (Macintosh computers do permit Windows to be installed, and Apple supplies one means of facilitating that).

Given what Apple has charged for its OS in recent years, the hardware is definitely where any profit is made (I have heard that Microsoft will be charging around $85US for each bundled copy of Windows RT). And as has been pointed out, installing and using MacOSX on any hardware not made or authorised by Apple is illegal. As a professional, I make sure there is no illegal software on my computers (all Macintoshes BTW).

So I find the touting of “Hackintoshes” both immoral and rather unprofessional.
I guess you are right it would turn out to be not so legal if you would bring it to court.... but it is not unprofessional...
It is Apple that is unprofessional to wait for four year to do an upgrade for the MacPro.
I am sure many of the Hackintosh owners would like to buy a MacPro at todays standards, but there is non ( that is how this item started)
Immoral; idem dito - It is Apple turning its back to the PRO-user- as they did before with Final Cut Pro X
Anyway I do not think Apples profit will be in any way affected by those few Hackintosh- machines...


« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 04:00:38 pm by kers »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2012, 11:39:27 am »

And as has been pointed out, installing and using MacOSX on any hardware not made or authorised by Apple is illegal. As a professional, I make sure there is no illegal software on my computers (all Macintoshes BTW).

3.  Umm.. I suppose in the loosest sense of the word.  Very loose.  Kinda like tearing the tag off your mattress don't you think?
...
I urge you to give more thought to a subject before making such baseless attacks.  It helps keep a more friendly forum and it would represent you in a more positive light.

There's no doubt that installing and using Mac OS on a machine not built by or authorised by Apple is contrary to the EULA, to which you implicitly or explicitly agree when you do the installation. As such, it's a breach of contract, which could, however unlikely it is actually to eventuate, result in your being sued and having to pay damages. It's contrary to your obligations under your local law and hence illegal.

If it's illegal, it's illegal. To quibble about the "loosest sense of the word" is as meaningful as suggesting that a girl can be "a little bit pregnant (in the loosest sense of the word)".

If breaking the law, or encouraging others to break it, isn't unprofessional, what is? Whether a particular illegal act is immoral is, I concede, a rather more relativistic point.

Jeremy
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2012, 04:34:15 pm »

There's no doubt that installing and using Mac OS on a machine not built by or authorised by Apple is contrary to the EULA, to which you implicitly or explicitly agree when you do the installation. As such, it's a breach of contract, which could, however unlikely it is actually to eventuate, result in your being sued and having to pay damages. It's contrary to your obligations under your local law and hence illegal.

If it's illegal, it's illegal. To quibble about the "loosest sense of the word" is as meaningful as suggesting that a girl can be "a little bit pregnant (in the loosest sense of the word)".

If breaking the law, or encouraging others to break it, isn't unprofessional
, what is? Whether a particular illegal act is immoral is, I concede, a rather more relativistic point.

Jeremy

1.  You were doing okay up to this point.  Can someone please point out under which penal code such a criminal charge would be made?  Or even what law of your locality/country would be broken?  Hint:  "illegal" does not enjoy the same breadth of application "legal" enjoys.  It's more specific.  


2.  Oh Jeremy.. how do you respond to someone incapable of seeing only black and white?  Certainly you can't suggest to such a person a concept such as color.  BTW - Your analogy needs a bit of work.  I do appreciate the attempt though, it shows a certain amount of conviction however misguided.

3.  My local speed limit on the highway is 65mph.  Our states drivers handbook also states it's more safe to speed up when changing lanes than to slow down (something I wish drivers over the age of retirement would figure out).  You can see the problem?  Laws aren't perfect.  They often need refinement through application and review.   OR..  If we consider the fact that we all drift up/down over our speed limits putting us in violation of an actual real law at least several times in the course of any trip on the highway.. would we be "unprofessional" to suggest an employee/client/self use the highway when driving to work?  And since it's so easy to momentarily exceed posted speed limits on the city streets, there as well?  There are endless comparisons.. we all break laws to different degrees every time we draw a breath.

4.  I recommend the use of smaller words lest we create unintentional smiles..

(For generations there existed a segment of society (often associated with those who wear tinfoil hats) who believed there were actual "mattress police" and lived in fear of falling asleep thereby making them complicit in the crime of mattress tag removal.  Hence, insomnia was born.)   Sherlock Holmes.. (not really, I made that up myself)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 04:48:04 pm by Steve Weldon »
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2012, 04:46:53 pm »

Legality of a hackintosh doesn't concern me much, as it is a very minor breach of EULA, at best. However, the very point of a Mac is that the OS is designed for a very small number of well tested components, and because of that it works better than other stuff, Windows included. The fundamental weakness of Windows is not being able to optimize software and hardware the way Apple can, making both.

Since Lion and Windows 7 seem to be very similar in most respects, and Windows is better suited to working with a wide pool of components from various vendors, this makes a hackintosh an inferior solution, by virtue of the fact that it's not doing what it's designed for. So basically I don't see why one would go that way - of you want to assemble your own machine, put Windows or Linux on it and problem solved. If you want something that works out of the box and has no compatibility issues, buy a Mac.

Good points but I think Hackentosh's exist simply because someone likes OSx, or wants all their machines to have the continuity of OSx, and wants it on a machine not available through Apple. 

I don't have one, but I have thought about building one for professional reasons.  I never gave much thought to compatibility though, most everything I've read shows them to be as reliable as Mac hardware.

The strong "Dudley Do-Right" admonishments can be irksome, but it's both fun and educational to engage such individuals.  Perspective is key.
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kers

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2012, 05:09:26 pm »

I can Imagine Apple would be in favour to a switch to Hackintosh compared to Windows...
It is also about software- If you decide to switch you don't go back or for very good reasons- like now...
( like the Nikon vs Canon problem having lenses that fit one or the other)
In the end the professional needs to stay competitive... needs a computer that is as fast as one can think...instead of drinking more coffee.

since 2009 pixels have increased by at least 50%
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tived

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2012, 05:33:50 pm »

You are certainly entitle to your opinion.

thanks for sharing

Henrik

It’s worth remembering that Apple is a hardware company which provides its own OS (Macintosh computers do permit Windows to be installed, and Apple supplies one means of facilitating that).

Given what Apple has charged for its OS in recent years, the hardware is definitely where any profit is made (I have heard that Microsoft will be charging around $85US for each bundled copy of Windows RT). And as has been pointed out, installing and using MacOSX on any hardware not made or authorised by Apple is illegal. As a professional, I make sure there is no illegal software on my computers (all Macintoshes BTW).

So I find the touting of “Hackintoshes” both immoral and rather unprofessional.
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tived

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2012, 06:01:27 pm »

Wow,
talking about tunnel vision. You must have suffered much, if and when you ever used a windows computer. I am truly sorry for you.

However I see it slightly differently, in that I think that both Microsoft and Apple provides some good and useful products, In some inviroments one has to use one or the other, and occationally both. However, currently the Mac user is disatvantaged by not having hardware that is current and up to date, with what the Microsoft user is able to use.

About Hackingtos, they are not done to take something away from Apple, they done as an improvement to the excisting available products offering. Ilegal yes!
And if and when we do it, its in the name of science :-) there everything is allowed!

"If you want something that works out of the box and has no compatibility issues, buy a Mac"
to a degree it does work but if and when you do go to a Mac-forum, then you will notice that being a Mac-User is not all plain sailing, despite how you like to depict that Mac is computing Niravana.

As a PC/Windows user, I like to see Apple do well, its good for competition and innovation - and each and every time I have to do a major workstation upgrade, I look at Apple to see if they are offering something better then I can build for Windows.

All the best
Henrik

Legality of a hackintosh doesn't concern me much, as it is a very minor breach of EULA, at best. However, the very point of a Mac is that the OS is designed for a very small number of well tested components, and because of that it works better than other stuff, Windows included. The fundamental weakness of Windows is not being able to optimize software and hardware the way Apple can, making both.

Since Lion and Windows 7 seem to be very similar in most respects, and Windows is better suited to working with a wide pool of components from various vendors, this makes a hackintosh an inferior solution, by virtue of the fact that it's not doing what it's designed for. So basically I don't see why one would go that way - of you want to assemble your own machine, put Windows or Linux on it and problem solved. If you want something that works out of the box and has no compatibility issues, buy a Mac.

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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Mac "Big Iron" rumors
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2012, 06:04:47 pm »

1.  You were doing okay up to this point.  Can someone please point out under which penal code such a criminal charge would be made?  Or even what law of your locality/country would be broken?  Hint:  "illegal" does not enjoy the same breadth of application "legal" enjoys.  It's more specific.  

You are confusing criminal and civil law. I didn't suggest any criminal offence was in issue. Who did?

2.  Oh Jeremy.. how do you respond to someone incapable of seeing only black and white?  Certainly you can't suggest to such a person a concept such as color.  BTW - Your analogy needs a bit of work.  I do appreciate the attempt though, it shows a certain amount of conviction however misguided.

Oh, I do colour work as well; and what we photographers describe as black and white usually has shades of grey.

Describing something as misguided doesn't make it so. Do you have reasoning to disclose?

3.  My local speed limit on the highway is 65mph.  Our states drivers handbook also states it's more safe to speed up when changing lanes than to slow down (something I wish drivers over the age of retirement would figure out).  You can see the problem?  Laws aren't perfect.  They often need refinement through application and review.   OR..  If we consider the fact that we all drift up/down over our speed limits putting us in violation of an actual real law at least several times in the course of any trip on the highway.. would we be "unprofessional" to suggest an employee/client/self use the highway when driving to work?  And since it's so easy to momentarily exceed posted speed limits on the city streets, there as well?  There are endless comparisons.. we all break laws to different degrees every time we draw a breath.

Again, you confuse criminal and civil concepts and hence introduce irrelevance.

4.  I recommend the use of smaller words lest we create unintentional smiles..

I apologise if my sesquipedalian terminology induced confusion. Which words did you have to look up?

(For generations there existed a segment of society (often associated with those who wear tinfoil hats) who believed there were actual "mattress police" and lived in fear of falling asleep thereby making them complicit in the crime of mattress tag removal.  Hence, insomnia was born.)  Sherlock Holmes.. (not really, I made that up myself)

I could tell. I've read Conan Doyle, so it wasn't difficult.

Jeremy
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 06:06:41 pm by kikashi »
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