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Author Topic: Best new "high use" customers?  (Read 6871 times)

mcpix

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Best new "high use" customers?
« on: April 21, 2012, 10:52:05 am »

I own a photo/video lab that I've had for many years. I got into large format printing about 6 years ago and I really enjoy making big prints.

Most of my customers are amateur photographers who bring in 1 or 2 images for their own personal use. I have a couple of customers who make prints for resale, but they tend to struggle to sell their prints.

Virtually all my orders are small (1 or 2 prints) and so my workflow can be erratic. Some work one week, not much the next. Most of my work is printed on Epson Luster, but I also do canvas, vinyl and some art papers.

I often read on this forum of members who are processing very large print orders and I was wondering what type of customer generates this type of business? Is it art reproduction? Wholesale work for another lab/frame shop? Groupon ad customers?

Thanks in advance for sharing.
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namartinnz

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 02:35:32 am »

I run a small print business and find most of the work is from artists and professional photographers on-selling with high quality canvas/art and photo prints. They appreciate the quality and clarity of the prints I make and are prepared to pay for that quality. I would never consider groupon advertising as the margins would be low compared to the high labour input I put into each photo. This has worked for me.

Neal

NancyP

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 04:16:26 pm »

Display graphics - large backlit (transparent) prints look great and are eye-catching in window displays, indoor signage, corporate interior decoration, museum display, etc. It might not be high volume per image, but I'd bet that the advertiser would pay well for an excellent photo-sign.

Do you know any interior decorators?
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mcpix

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 10:47:46 am »

I've thought of printing for artists, and I feel I have the experience to give them the quality they want. I'm just afraid that they may want a level of perfection that is difficult (if not impossible) to achieve.
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Landscapes

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 04:10:07 pm »

I've thought of printing for artists, and I feel I have the experience to give them the quality they want. I'm just afraid that they may want a level of perfection that is difficult (if not impossible) to achieve.

I do agree.  Nobody could do my printing because I would be very picky, and a mistake by me isn't quite the same as a mistake by someone else! LOL  But I did do some printing for some fellow photographers and they were all quite pleased.  I'm not sure what the labs are spitting out, but perhaps its not as good.  Price is the killer though.  A really good printer will charge roughly $10 a square foot, which isn't cheap.  I was charging 6 cents a square inch.  So a 16x20 was roughly $20.  It didn't take long for the guy I was printing for to go out and buy an Epson 3880.  You'd be crazy charging less though cause reprints you gotta cover yourself or any other problems.  So if all you're gonna do is double or triple your cost, you're gonna be broke soon.  But then nobody wants to pay $20 or more for one single print, especially if they have dozens to do since a new printer might not be that much more.  So I'm not sure what I'm saying.. just sharing my experience! LOL
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Peterretep

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 09:15:03 am »

Kiran, I think charging  6 cents a sq/inch is very low and would make earning even a modest profit difficult. Perhaps you posted the wrong numbers but the price per sq/inch you say a really good printer charges is only one cent more than your charges, still very low in my opinion. In doing quantity prints, $20 for a 16x20 is not a bad price but if you charge that little for the first hard to achieve good looking print than you would be working at sub minimum wage. I totally disagree with you about this comment, "But then nobody wants to pay $20 or more for one single print" I don't believe that to be the case at all.

Good quality paper costs a lot as do the inks and the printer itself which all must be figured into the price of a print. The experience of a really good printer is also valuable. I consider myself to be a good printer with over 30 years of experience and thousands of printed images under my belt. I don't know if the quality of the prints I make exceed the quality of yours or the labs you mention but I certainly hope they do because I do charge much more than you. I also believe I'm charging less than most high quality professional labs so I know my pricing is not excessive.

Peter

Damir

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 12:05:56 pm »

So if all you're gonna do is double or triple your cost, you're gonna be broke soon.  But then nobody wants to pay $20 or more for one single print, especially if they have dozens to do since a new printer might not be that much more.  So I'm not sure what I'm saying.. just sharing my experience! LOL

So how much do you think it should be charged if triple the cost is not enough. Maybe the way you calculate your cost is not proper?
Cost is not just the paper and ink, it is also your time, your printer, rents, taxes etc. If you count all that triple the cost is a way too much to charge for print!
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fetish

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 12:21:43 pm »

I charge approx USD$40 psf. reason is in my experience, workmanship, time, etc, all rolled into one.
I have extremely low tolerence to print defects and I print with so much passion it's almost an obsession with perfection.

Compared to what I charge for time when I was a photographer, it's cheap.

It all depends on where on the pyramid you wanna position yourself. The top, the middle, or the bottom, focusing on quality, compromise, or economics respectively.
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Landscapes

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 01:06:39 pm »

Kiran, I think charging  6 cents a sq/inch is very low and would make earning even a modest profit difficult. P

No.. this is correct.  I'm not running a business in printing and this was simply the price quoted to friends of friends.  Although I do agree its lower than what is commercially available, it was a number I came up with that I was comfortable with.  Its good to keep my printer going and hence it gave me an excuse to print which is good.  My paper is somewhat cheap, just standard Canon or Epson satin.  I fully understand that if I was running an actual printing business this wouldn't be enough, but this is a number I am happy to quote for anyone in my circles that asks. 
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Peterretep

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 01:41:56 pm »

I own a photo/video lab that I've had for many years. I got into large format printing about 6 years ago and I really enjoy making big prints.

Most of my customers are amateur photographers who bring in 1 or 2 images for their own personal use. I have a couple of customers who make prints for resale, but they tend to struggle to sell their prints.

Virtually all my orders are small (1 or 2 prints) and so my workflow can be erratic. Some work one week, not much the next. Most of my work is printed on Epson Luster, but I also do canvas, vinyl and some art papers.

I often read on this forum of members who are processing very large print orders and I was wondering what type of customer generates this type of business? Is it art reproduction? Wholesale work for another lab/frame shop? Groupon ad customers?

Thanks in advance for sharing.
Sorry for the hijack, .... now back to your topic.  ;-)

tmphoto

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 06:36:11 pm »

You can compete on price or quality. If you are not able to produce top quality you have to compete on price.
In this case your clientele will be starving artists.
Be prepared to offer other services such as scanning and retouching.

The main obstacle is not whether you have a nice printer and could make good quality prints but do you have a potentially profitable sales and marketing plan?
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tmphoto

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 06:49:15 pm »

I've thought of printing for artists, and I feel I have the experience to give them the quality they want. I'm just afraid that they may want a level of perfection that is difficult (if not impossible) to achieve.
If you start with a great image you will have a great print. Are you able to capture their work into great images?
A top quality image will print bad only if you are really lousy. A difference will be that you will need to include proof prints costs as they will need to be approved before you make the final prints.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 06:52:39 pm by tmphoto »
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Damir

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 05:00:31 am »

I charge approx USD$40 psf. reason is in my experience, workmanship, time, etc, all rolled into one.
I have extremely low tolerence to print defects and I print with so much passion it's almost an obsession with perfection.

Compared to what I charge for time when I was a photographer, it's cheap.

It all depends on where on the pyramid you wanna position yourself. The top, the middle, or the bottom, focusing on quality, compromise, or economics respectively.


Sorry what is psf?
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Nigel Johnson

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 01:46:46 pm »

Sorry what is psf?

Damir

psf = per square foot

ie the price for a 24 inch by 36 inch print (eg 2 feet by 3 feet = 6 square feet) would be six times the psf price, hence for Fetish's $40 psf price such a print would cost $240.

Nigel
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mcpix

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 02:40:54 am »

I appreciate all the great feedback in this thread. However, sometimes I feel that  there must be two parallel universes. One, where people acknowledge good quality work and will gladly pay for it, and the other is the one I live in. I have many people who come to me, because they know I'll make their photos look great. The problem always comes when I try to charge for my experience. Most of the people I deal with are extremely price sensitive, and I wouldn't even have the business I currently do if I tried to charge some of the prices previously discussed.

Is it a matter of market size? Are the higher priced printer jobs in larger cities? Is it the type of retail location?
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Damir

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 05:50:30 am »

As you sad: I have a couple of customers who make prints for resale, but they tend to struggle to sell their prints.
If they struggle to sell they must be sensitive to price.

On the other side question is how much experience worth in term of money - probably a lot if you are the only one who is experienced in your area, on the other side probably not much if you are surrounded by other experienced printers.

I have experienced printer in my area who is also expensive one but for recent exhibition (not mine) I was asked to made some prints, as he was busy, so in the same gallery there was his prints and my prints of similar pictures. Everyone who saw exhibition agree that my prints are the better than the prints he made. He is excellent, but he is printer, I am photographer who mostly print for myself, only some times I print for my fellows photographers, I do not do commercial printing. I also print with passion, I also have zero tolerance for print defects, but I am not considered myself as expert printer.

The other guy, as some other experienced printers I know, do a lot of talking about calibration, ink limits, linearization, profiles and so on. They have perfect mathematics of printing. On the other side I just use my Z3100 without too much consideration about such problems, let the printer do his job. But when I had my exhibition I tried almost 15 different papers before I decide which one suits best for the pictures I was printing. Also for example mentioned above. I choose different kind of paper than he did, because I feel that it will better suit to the pictures that I was printing. It seems to me that my experience as a photographer-printer combination is much more valuable then their experience as graphic designer-printer combination. They always can out talk me with their technical talks, they have so many technical gadgets, they use complicated techniques and expensive RIP software, but at the end they can not feel the soul of the picture and give to the picture what it need to be presented in a way that people who visit the gallery stayed amazed by the picture.

At the exhibition I mentioned I was fascinated how different visitors react to the different kind of printing. Pictures are very similar, same subjects, same lighting, same shooting technique. Visitors come in the front of his prints, say "nice" and continue. When they came in front of my prints they stayed there, discus the photo, talk about shooting technique that photographer use, talk about lighting that photographer use. At the end they spent much more time in front of prints I made and always ask for the price. Most of the prints I made was sold, but none of the other printer.

It is strange, he use better more expensive paper, he have much more experience in printing, better equipment, better calibration and so on. So there are different kind of experiences which reflects differently on final product.

At the end you can charge what you feel you need to charge, as long as there is someone who want to pay for it fine. But I have the feeling that to many printers are lost in the lend of numbers and charts, and that they can not find the way out of that. I can not remember where on this forum I red a comment which goes something like: "I first check which version of software printer use if he do not use latest version of Photoshop I look for another one." I was amazed with such comment, btw. I am still using Photoshop SC3, it was perfect 3 years ago and it is still perfect now.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 05:56:42 am by Damir »
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chichornio

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 11:56:35 pm »

The other guy, as some other experienced printers I know, do a lot of talking about calibration, ink limits, linearization, profiles and so on. They have perfect mathematics of printing. On the other side I just use my Z3100 without too much consideration about such problems, let the printer do his job. But when I had my exhibition I tried almost 15 different papers before I decide which one suits best for the pictures I was printing. Also for example mentioned above. I choose different kind of paper than he did, because I feel that it will better suit to the pictures that I was printing. It seems to me that my experience as a photographer-printer combination is much more valuable then their experience as graphic designer-printer combination. They always can out talk me with their technical talks, they have so many technical gadgets, they use complicated techniques and expensive RIP software, but at the end they can not feel the soul of the picture and give to the picture what it need to be presented in a way that people who visit the gallery stayed amazed by the picture.

That´s the key for this business. You´re already an expert printmaker if you undestood that. Great comments.
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mcpix

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2012, 11:17:06 am »

One thing I have thought about is offering a wider selection of photo papers. The majority of my photo printing is on Epson Premium Luster. Although it works great for photos, it's also what all the other labs (including the 4 Walgreens) are using.



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Damir

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 04:27:51 pm »

I tried to use papers from Mitsubishi, Canon, HP, Hahnemuhle, sometimes hand coated paper with InkAid if I need something special. Around 25 different papers. I print mostly on 5 - 6 surfaces, but always have samples of different papers on hand. That's why just adore my Z, it is so simple to calibrate everything what I put inside the printer.
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mcpix

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Re: Best new "high use" customers?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2012, 08:17:01 pm »

I often see threads about different papers to use for different purposes. I was wondering though, if you had to pick 3 or 4 different papers to offer your customers, which ones would you choose?
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