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Author Topic: Copyrights and stuff essay  (Read 22340 times)

collum

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2012, 04:33:33 pm »

from the Alvernia University website, I got the email contact to the Office of the President. I sent an email to their President voicing my feelings on what they were doing. Their official response was..... interesting.

Here's their correspondence back (Karen is listed as the official contact to the Office of the President)

Karen Schroder <Karen.Schroder@alvernia.edu>
   
1:02 PM (28 minutes ago)
      
to me
This is a scam for money. Thank you for your email.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "jim collum" <collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>> wrote:

As a professional photographer, who has work exhibited in various venues (both physical and online galleries), and who values the concept of Intellectual Property, I find the conduct of your school reprehensible.  This site is a predominiant source of information among the photographic community, ( both professional and amateur), and word of the actions of your Institute are rapidly spreading among that community. This link is being spread among all of the major forums.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/they_are_stealing_our_work.shtml

Frankly, as a school of higher learning, and one who is responsible for preparing the ethical standards for your graduating students.. you should be ashamed of yourselves


Jim Collum
collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2012, 05:15:50 pm »

What's with senior members hijacking an interesting topic? I just wanted to add an on-topic perspective, not get a bunch of flak from armchair vigilantes. Enjoy taking your landscape photos with your expensive cameras. I hope you each make one million dollars selling each photo. Peace.

It is called a conversation. Folks start by talking abut a subject, other join and add other information, and the whole process grows organically. Just like a conversation in person. You added a piece of information and we responded to it.

Actually, I am unsure how I am a vigilante. I was just commenting on your helping what seems to be an illegal operation that you seemed proud to join. You seem to be under the impression that it was helping people, but you really did not care to find out anything about it. My question was sincere, how did you know you were not helping someone exploit these people?

Why you feel you need to make a condescending remark, I have no idea.
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2012, 05:19:49 pm »

from the Alvernia University website, I got the email contact to the Office of the President. I sent an email to their President voicing my feelings on what they were doing. Their official response was..... interesting.

Here's their correspondence back (Karen is listed as the official contact to the Office of the President)

Karen Schroder <Karen.Schroder@alvernia.edu>
   
1:02 PM (28 minutes ago)
      
to me
This is a scam for money. Thank you for your email.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "jim collum" <collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>> wrote:

As a professional photographer, who has work exhibited in various venues (both physical and online galleries), and who values the concept of Intellectual Property, I find the conduct of your school reprehensible.  This site is a predominiant source of information among the photographic community, ( both professional and amateur), and word of the actions of your Institute are rapidly spreading among that community. This link is being spread among all of the major forums.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/they_are_stealing_our_work.shtml

Frankly, as a school of higher learning, and one who is responsible for preparing the ethical standards for your graduating students.. you should be ashamed of yourselves


Jim Collum
collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>

Jim, top marks for your ethics, but this is really between the photographer and the university. I thinking if someone e-mailed me something like this out of the blue, I might think it a scam too--the internet is a scary place.
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collum

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2012, 05:25:15 pm »

Jim, top marks for your ethics, but this is really between the photographer and the university. I thinking if someone e-mailed me something like this out of the blue, I might think it a scam too--the internet is a scary place.

I agree that the legal action is between Alain and the school, and if this were an issue between Alain and some website that used his image without permission I'd agree with you. However I believe their stance impacts a broader audience (myself included).  They are educating the next generation of consumers of what we produce. For the most part, what the students learn here, will be considered gospel for most of their lives.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 05:34:13 pm by collum »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2012, 06:09:04 pm »

... I believe their stance impacts a broader audience (myself included).  They are educating the next generation...

I agree Jim and I applaud your action.

I also lament the absence of a body similar to what music and video industry has got that would go after infringing. While I am not condoning the extremes those bodies are willing to go to set an example (e.g., pursuing $100K in fines for a single mother, whose daughter downloaded a dozen of songs illegally), I wish there would be a collective body representing photographers' interests in a reasonable manner, if only by providing a public pressure.

In absence of the above, I think your idea is splendid: group pressure, via direct email, social sites, local media, etc. As a matter of fact, how about alerting a local newspaper or TV how their university is educating students to steel intellectual property?

That would not be fighting Alain Briot's fight, that would be fighting for the interests of all of us. If social media could help overturn despot regimes, why not help the rule of law in our own backyard?

As a college instructor (occasionally), i am aware that my school takes plagiarism (another form of IP theft) quite seriously, and I hope most schools do. It is a shame that the university in question is taking such defensive and evasive steps even after learning about the copyright infringement. Most universities are for-profit institutions, with millions in budgets, and even millions in annual salaries for their presidents, so lets just drop that "poor student" mantra as defense.

Isaac

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2012, 06:41:58 pm »

... I think your idea is splendid: group pressure, via direct email, social sites, local media, etc.

Remember, this all happened over a year ago.
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dreed

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2012, 11:24:02 pm »

To get an idea of why copyright is so on the nose for people, read this thread:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/04/05/2315234/mpaa-chief-dodd-hints-at-talks-to-revive-sopa

Earlier in this thread, someone chipped in about how photographers needed something like MPAA/RIAA. These organisations are among the most detested by the Internet at large. They sponsored the SOPA act which essentially amounted to censorship of the Internet. I'd think very carefully before saying anything like photographers needing something equivalent unless you want to also be seen as part of that problem.
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meyerweb

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2012, 09:40:43 pm »

What I find most amusing is the justification of "fair use" on the part of the university and many of the academics on this board. This is the same academia that will fail a student for copying one sentence from another written source. But, apparently, copying an entire photograph without attribution is different.

Hypocrites.
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2012, 10:36:17 pm »

What I find most amusing is the justification of "fair use" on the part of the university and many of the academics on this board. This is the same academia that will fail a student for copying one sentence from another written source. But, apparently, copying an entire photograph without attribution is different.

Hypocrites.

Wow. Name calling! Well, that actually proves you know what you are talking about. It is a pity you cannot read.
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dreed

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2012, 03:16:51 am »

What I find most amusing is the justification of "fair use" on the part of the university and many of the academics on this board. This is the same academia that will fail a student for copying one sentence from another written source. But, apparently, copying an entire photograph without attribution is different.

To be fair, the article that Alain wrote did not go into any detail about if there were any repercussions for the student and in any case, such things should be a private matter between the school and student.

Another instance of this problem that Alain ran into happened a few years ago:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jun/11/smith-family-photo-czech-advertisement
- the mother's conclusion is the same as Alain's: don't upload high resolution photos to the Internet.

And it would be naive to assume that these are isolated incidents.
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kaelaria

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2012, 10:44:52 pm »

Three comments.  First, great article, very frustrating topic.

Second, I would love to see real world commentary on how the PPA benefits can help with these cases.

Third, I would really love to see image tracking built in to Lightroom.
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dreed

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2012, 09:30:16 am »

I agree that the legal action is between Alain and the school, and if this were an issue between Alain and some website that used his image without permission I'd agree with you. However I believe their stance impacts a broader audience (myself included).  They are educating the next generation of consumers of what we produce. For the most part, what the students learn here, will be considered gospel for most of their lives.

As the US Government pushes ever more for control over content on the Internet, be it for themselves or by proxy for corporations, more people are reacting by deciding that copyright is no longer relevant and needs to be abolished. So what students are learning from the MPAA/RIAA and their cohorts is that copyright is something that is backed by evil/greedy organisations and corrupt government. That is the gospel that they are reading from every day of their lives.

The latest salvo in this battle is this:
http://rt.com/usa/news/cispa-bill-sopa-internet-175/
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Isaac

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2012, 12:34:40 pm »

So what students are learning from the MPAA/RIAA and their cohorts is that copyright is something that is backed by evil/greedy organisations and corrupt government. That is the gospel that they are reading from every day of their lives.
At risk of stating the obvious, people who want to use what others have created have a short-term interest in doing so without cost, while those others have an interest in benefiting from their own creativity.

I want, I take -- is not without greed.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 07:06:37 pm by Isaac »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2012, 01:11:37 pm »

As the US Government pushes ever more for control over content on the Internet, be it for themselves or by proxy for corporations, more people are reacting by deciding that copyright is no longer relevant and needs to be abolished. So what students are learning from the MPAA/RIAA and their cohorts is that copyright is something that is backed by evil/greedy organisations and corrupt government. That is the gospel that they are reading from every day of their lives.

The latest salvo in this battle is this:
http://rt.com/usa/news/cispa-bill-sopa-internet-175/


Wouldn't it be awful if some sort of reasonable compromise cannot be reached. There seems to be this belief by some that commercial success (at least in part) of companies engaged in intellectual property related business models might require suspension of some citizen rights that took centuries to acquire. I would have a hard time with that one and if that were the stark choice to be made, I would have to come down on the side of the "tough luck for those businesses". I guess they just won't make as much money, then. I don't see where commercial rights should trump rights of citizens, the former are a privilege and the latter should not be.

But like I said, there had better be a better solution to all this than the permanent surveillance of everyone, that's too high a price, imo. There is no way that power would remain benign, not on this planet. Societies make decisions all the time about what commercial activities are acceptable based on the moral values of the society. We no longer allow the buying and selling of human beings, which probably upset lots of profitable slave-trading businesses at the time of abolition, but we said tough luck for them. And no, I am NOT making a moral equivalence, merely pointing out that commercial activities always have to fit inside the surrounding culture. Our society is NOT here primarily to help people make money. People running businesses that make money is simply one of the ways that societal interactions take place.

I think that in the privacy vs copyrights vs property rights debate, we simply have not reached an acceptable consensus yet. Extremist positions of any kind are not helpful in these kinds of discussions. The ideas take time to filter through, and we should take the time. But I am not optimistic that the political leaders of the day have the kind of maturity required to make long-term decisions that are in everyone's interests.
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Isaac

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2012, 12:32:11 pm »

I think that in the privacy vs copyrights vs property rights debate, we simply have not reached an acceptable consensus yet. ... The ideas take time to filter through, and we should take the time.

500 years and counting...

"But the new technology produced a much more pervasive danger: that an artist’s printed output would be so quickly and thoroughly copied and pirated that his work would be diluted and his good name undermined. Clinging on to authorship, in an age of open access, was as hard then as now."

Albrecht Dürer: Portrait of the artist as an entrepreneur

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2012, 01:21:18 pm »

500 years and counting...

"But the new technology produced a much more pervasive danger: that an artist’s printed output would be so quickly and thoroughly copied and pirated that his work would be diluted and his good name undermined. Clinging on to authorship, in an age of open access, was as hard then as now."

Albrecht Dürer: Portrait of the artist as an entrepreneur



I was specifically thinking of the internet privacy encroachments when I wrote that entry. I should not be surprised that we're not the first generation to face these questions.
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Robert

Rhossydd

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2012, 02:22:10 pm »

An interesting piece on the implications of copyright and privacy here;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/09/breaking_the_internet_no_property_no_privacy/
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2012, 06:08:22 pm »

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Robert

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2012, 10:56:58 am »

from the Alvernia University website, I got the email contact to the Office of the President. I sent an email to their President voicing my feelings on what they were doing. Their official response was..... interesting.

Here's their correspondence back (Karen is listed as the official contact to the Office of the President)

Karen Schroder <Karen.Schroder@alvernia.edu>
   
1:02 PM (28 minutes ago)
      
to me
This is a scam for money. Thank you for your email.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "jim collum" <collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>> wrote:

As a professional photographer, who has work exhibited in various venues (both physical and online galleries), and who values the concept of Intellectual Property, I find the conduct of your school reprehensible.  This site is a predominiant source of information among the photographic community, ( both professional and amateur), and word of the actions of your Institute are rapidly spreading among that community. This link is being spread among all of the major forums.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/they_are_stealing_our_work.shtml

Frankly, as a school of higher learning, and one who is responsible for preparing the ethical standards for your graduating students.. you should be ashamed of yourselves


Jim Collum
collum@gmail.com<mailto:collum@gmail.com>

Hmmm.  I wonder what the local newspapers around the University would think of the schools theft....and the response of their President.  It appears the President of the schools thinks she can obtain any image on the internet and use it for free without any payment.....as any request for payment is a scam.  I think the newspapers would find this very interesting indeed.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Copyrights and stuff essay
« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2012, 12:45:56 pm »

... I wish there would be a collective body representing photographers' interests in a reasonable manner, if only by providing a public pressure...

There is... in France, apparently. Now, not everyone would agree with the delicate Gallic humor used, especially not on the Puritan side of the ocean ;), but hey, they will grab your attention:

Controversial French Ad Campaign for Photographers’ Rights
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