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Author Topic: Nikon 800 thoughts  (Read 2179 times)

marcmccalmont

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Nikon 800 thoughts
« on: March 25, 2012, 06:32:06 pm »

1. I think the D800 appears to be one of the most balanced and useful photographic tools yet, It's price, image quality and functionality probably eclipses anything in photographic history as an organic whole.
2. From another post "It takes 4 times the pixels to double resolution so why not take the dxo mark score and multiply it by the sqrt of the sensors resolution to get a real world value? 5DII = 79 x sqrt 21 = 362, D800 = 95 x sqrt 36 = 570, IQ180 = 91 x sqrt 80 = 814, this correlates with what I see. I personally use DxO to evaluate whether an upgrade  is worth it or not, if I can't get a 10 point increase in DxO Mark score I don't spend the money. Using this metric it certainly made sense to upgrade my P45+ to a IQ180 and it makes more sense to upgrade my 5DII to a D800 than a 5DIII."
3. Perhaps Nikon's reversing of the horizontal AA filter in the 800E polarizes the light reaching the microlenses reducing color shifts, artifacts etc and increasing IQ over having just replaced the AA filter with a band pass filter?
4. Looking at the sharpness comparisons between the 800 and the 800E it strikes me that many people are concerned that there is "false detail" in the 800E but are willing to use a deconvolution algorithm to estimate something that wasn't captured anyways? My experience with the 5D maxmax was, you are better off without the AA filter and less deconvolution sharpening over using an AA filter and more deconvolution sharpening.
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

kers

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Re: Nikon 800 thoughts
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 06:51:48 pm »

Looking at the comparisons between the d800 and D800E versions so far the latter delivers a crisper image. Everybody will agree with that.
The only question for me is how much moiré can i expect to see?
I can deal with color moiré in post production but not with the BW-patterns.
Also I cannot see in the field if there will be moiré or not, without examining each image very closely.
I wonder how often the MF fashion/ architecture photographers have to deal with it, and how.
I have seen horrible examples of for instance the Leica S2. The sharper the lens the more Moiré...
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikon 800 thoughts
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 07:40:07 pm »

Hi,

The smaller pixels may help with Moiré, or they may not.

Best regards
Erik


Looking at the comparisons between the d800 and D800E versions so far the latter delivers a crisper image. Everybody will agree with that.
The only question for me is how much moiré can i expect to see?
I can deal with color moiré in post production but not with the BW-patterns.
Also I cannot see in the field if there will be moiré or not, without examining each image very closely.
I wonder how often the MF fashion/ architecture photographers have to deal with it, and how.
I have seen horrible examples of for instance the Leica S2. The sharper the lens the more Moiré...
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Ray

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Re: Nikon 800 thoughts
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 09:26:41 pm »

1. I think the D800 appears to be one of the most balanced and useful photographic tools yet, It's price, image quality and functionality probably eclipses anything in photographic history as an organic whole.
2. From another post "It takes 4 times the pixels to double resolution so why not take the dxo mark score and multiply it by the sqrt of the sensors resolution to get a real world value? 5DII = 79 x sqrt 21 = 362, D800 = 95 x sqrt 36 = 570, IQ180 = 91 x sqrt 80 = 814, this correlates with what I see. I personally use DxO to evaluate whether an upgrade  is worth it or not, if I can't get a 10 point increase in DxO Mark score I don't spend the money. Using this metric it certainly made sense to upgrade my P45+ to a IQ180 and it makes more sense to upgrade my 5DII to a D800 than a 5DIII."
3. Perhaps Nikon's reversing of the horizontal AA filter in the 800E polarizes the light reaching the microlenses reducing color shifts, artifacts etc and increasing IQ over having just replaced the AA filter with a band pass filter?
4. Looking at the sharpness comparisons between the 800 and the 800E it strikes me that many people are concerned that there is "false detail" in the 800E but are willing to use a deconvolution algorithm to estimate something that wasn't captured anyways? My experience with the 5D maxmax was, you are better off without the AA filter and less deconvolution sharpening over using an AA filter and more deconvolution sharpening.
Marc

All good points, Marc. Many people criticise DXOMark for not providing resolution tests, but the facts are, resolution is dependent not only upon factors such as the pixel-count of the sensor, but also the quality of the lens used at a particular aperture, the strength of the AA filter and the quality and characteristics of the RAW converter.  There are too many variables to provide meaningful, accurate and non-contentious results on sensor resolution.

However, one can be fairly certain that the sensor with the greater number of pixels will tend to deliver greater resolution from the same lens when used at an aperture which is not completely diffraction limited.

Your formula that 4x the number of pixels equates to a doubling of resolution would seem to apply only in relation to a theoretically perfect lens. The increase will inevitably be less than that since the output resolution is always a product of both lens resolution and sensor resolution. There will be a law of diminishing returns that applies.

As regards the choice of D800 or D800E, I'm surprised you seem uncertain about which model to get, considering you've already been using the lower mp 5D with AA filter removed, as well as MFDB equipment.

If you haven't experienced any major aliasing problems with your 5D, I can't see how you would with the D800E. As the pixel density increases, the aliasing problems become less significant. Is this not the case?

I haven't yet placed my own order for a D800 (or D800E), but I'm beginning to be worried that I might have left it too late to now get delivery of the camera before my next trip to Nepal, because of all you Canon guys jumping ship.  ;D

For goodness sake, you guys, show a bit of brand loyalty will you!  ;D
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marcmccalmont

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Re: Nikon 800 thoughts
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 09:41:12 pm »

Ray
I pre ordered a D800E a month ago when they were announced, no hard decision for me, I'm guessing my eye is insensitive to artifacts and moire and very sensitive to edge sharpness.
Resolution, I would apply the formula to any sensor no mater the pixel pitch or sensor size not assuming the same lens or format at all but your point is well taken, just my personal metric to compare MFDB to DSLRs etc.
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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