Boston : Can someone help me out with gear.

[BlasR]

Frank,

Great you have something, that is just perfect, if in the future u need it, and I can help, let me know and I will.

I do not know if I can meet you, but send me a text or email, in let me know when u in town, if i can I will.

[Alan W George]

Let's put this back in to context...

Here is Frank's original post/request.

I will be teaching two workshops in Boston on the 30th and 31th (March).
Because we will be traveling around a lot, starting out teaching at PSW DC, than B&H in NY and finally Boston I'm planning on leaving my Medium Format camera at home.
Of course for the workshops in Boston it would be nice to be able to shoot with the MF, but it's the only time I will be using it so I wonder if someone can hook me up with a Phase One/Leaf system for those two days.

Greetings,
Frank

Here is my admittedly American translation.

"Hi guys.  My name is Frank.  I am going to be putting on a few workshops (insert shameless pugs).  I have MF equipement but for reasons unexplained, I don't want to bring mine soooo I was hoping to use yours:)"

Now all I know about Frank is this one post and my reaction is WTF, he's got to be kidding.  Seems a reasonable reaction to me, but of course it is mine:)

To add insult to injury, Frank and others are now painting me as some villain.  "Woe is me, I have been attacked"

Nice!!!    

[Frank Doorhof]

I'm just wondering why the offense. Nothing more.

Maybe it would have been a good idea to first check me out before posting ?
I know I do. On the other hand I would never respond this way

[BlasR]

Alan,

What is wrong to ask for a favor?  in if you doing the favor, why you care if the X person make a million or not or have the same as u do or not?

If you going to do the favorjust say so, or send a private message, in say U can,in do NOT expect anything back, maybe a thank you in life continues on.

If you are NOT going to do the favor, move on, lets the one will do it, posted and life still nice.  Why go after the person, the asking?

If, JEFF said he is good guy he must be..Wow I just give credit to Jeff.  If you going to look all the people the posting here in go after then, U have problem/s
I will advice you to, to find someone in the street in fight.

if no one want to fight,go to the GOLDEN STATE BRIDGE, just walk around there, you will see someone jump, gone for ever,maybe they tired of this life.  Do NOT jump life is so beautiful! but if you jump, you going to leave the cash you have to your wife, in she will get another man in spend with him.
wow, U lose it all, life and then the cash.

So relax, lets other post in here in ask for a favor, if anyone want to do it, lets them do it.  WHY U SO MAD?  No one after you other then your own self, love your self more then anyone else, you will feel good about it.

God Bless you, and move one..He found someone the will give the camera, in if you read, I was ready to do it, for FREE.  I LOVE U TOO..I am full of love

[Alan W George]

Maybe it would have been a good idea to first check me out before posting ?

Why do you think that would have made a difference?

An obnoxious Andreas Gursky and an obnoxious Andreas Gursky.

It seems your desires have been fulfilled, so perhaps we can move on...

[Frank Doorhof]

If you would've checked me out you Probably understood me a bit more and knew I don't want/need freebies

And indeed let's move on, not worth all the trouble.

[LKaven]

Why do you think that would have made a difference?

Yes, it /should/ have made a difference.  Having seen Frank around here for a few years, I would expect him to be fair in negotiation for things he might want or need.  I did not read his posting the way you did.  Sorry if your first impression of Frank was inaccurate, but it seems that's a matter for you to reflect on for yourself.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Frank,

I understand the risk, but Boston ain't like going to Iraq and that's why insurance exists.

I agree, and besides, don't you have your gear insured? mine is insured so that  basically if I do anything to it, including accidental it is covered. I have traveled from NYC -> W. DC -> Oregon and NYC -> DC -> Costa Rica -> Hawaii carrying my H3Dii-39ms and a H4D-50 (rented) and a H2D + PhaseOne P65+ H mount (rented) with 5-6 lenses, thats a Maserati in a suit case, and I never worried, theres nothing out there that can truly kill your gear if you are careful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianhirschfeldphotography/6811707045/in/photostream ~ here I was standing in the ocean with the waves with a Gitzo Tripod, with a P65+ and Hasselblad 300mm HC lens

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianhirschfeldphotography/6802397205/in/photostream ~ Here was a H4D-50 with a 50mm lens on a tripod, which had to be handed down to me because, it was on a basically vertical slope of the canyon.

Risks make the pictures.

[Schewe]

I agree, and besides, don't you have your gear insured?

Read the thread...he wasn't on a "shoot" he was ad-libbing a workshop in Boston where he knew nobody and wanted to be "able" to add MFDB to the workshop. Frank has already stated he could do the workshop with the equipment he planned on bringing....DSLR. His thought (now prolly regretting it) was to add to the workshop by demoing MFDB as an extra...

People seriously got way bent out of shape here and should look themselves pretty hard in the mirror. What many "thought" he was asking for was NOT what he was asking for. Which led to a miscommunication (on Frank but still...) and things got blown way out of realistic proportion, as Americans are prone to do. (which my European friends tell me is the downside of America).

[mr purdy]

I'm just wondering why the offense. Nothing more.

Frank, I think the issue is that you did not say ANYTHING about offering the person loaning the $30,000 device a "free" workshop until sometime after people were offended. Your original post said nothing about an equipment loan in exchange for participation in the workshop. I think that is 90% of the problem.

Instead of just admitting that it was a bold proposition, you (and Schewe) seem to be implying that everyone should have known that a free workshop was offered in trade, when it was not. Not until people were offended anyway...

I understand there is somewhat of a language barrier, but I believe that if you had intended to offer something in exchange (such as a workshop) you would have done so in the original post. Your english seems pretty good to me ;-)

We are all running business here, and it is odd for one business person to ask another for a free $30,000 loan...

I can not think of a single forum anywhere where someone asking to borrow $30,000 worth of stuff so they could make money off of it would not be LOLed off of the internet.

Personally, I would loan someone on these forums something in exchange for a workshop. That sounds like fun to me. I have run workshops in NY and met people from the forums, and it was very fun.

Now, back to my original premise: I believe if you had originally offered something in exchange, these business-minded chaps at LL would have responded in kind.

[Frank Doorhof]

Hummm so first attack and than ask
Right.

Everything is arranged at the moment via a dealer (as was my original intention) so I guess some people did understand the question.

It will in fact be the last time I ever ask something here.

[mr purdy]

Hummm so first attack and than ask
Right.

Frank, you should take responsibility for being unclear in your original post. Also you could respond to some of the specifics in my previous post instead of pretending everyone is being mean to you.

[Frank Doorhof]

Sure now I am wrong ?
Weird world.

As soon as I saw someone was in doubt I corrected it by stating what I meant after that it still went on for more than 2 pages. And I should apology ?

Ok, sorry for asking.

[tom b]

Frank, you have nothing to apologise for, you've done it already and explained yourself on several occasions.

Having seen your images on this site I'm sure that it would have been a win/win situation if someone loaned you the gear.

Unfortunately the internet doesn't have the self censorship that occurs with face to face conversations. Writing in a second language doesn't help. Being new to a site doesn't help either.

On a lighter side if you want to learn how to apologise Japanese style this video is instructional.

Cheers,

[kencameron]

Frank, you have nothing to apologise for, you've done it already and explained yourself on several occasions.

+1.

[bcooter]

I don't think this is a country specific cultural change, but an internet and generational change of viewpoint.

In the past Mr. X would display photographs with logos featuring his photographs and equipment manufacturers.  In my world and most parts of the world (including europe) that would be considered advertising.

Also Mr. X used this forum to announce for profit seminars.  Once again in my world that is a form of advertising or at least a classified ad.

Now this last post that Mr. X started was to ask for free equipment to use for a for profit seminar and to announce the seminar.  Once again is this advertising or information?

That's pretty much the issue with the web and something everyone of us have run up against .  Is the web free?   Is everything connected to web information free?

But I don't believe this is country specific, I believe this is "for profit" specific.

I guess this would be viewed differently if all of this for for a non profit organization, but the main thing is it's not my or anyone's decision what is allowed on this forum

It's up to the owners and site administrators.

Still, I guess it begs the question, is this information or gaming the system?

I guess it's what side of the fence you stand on.  I know phtographers that would be incensed of someone put a logo on their photo for profit and did not pay, though have no issue doing the same if it works in their favor. 

I'm not judging, in fact I'm just asking if this is the new standard.



BC

[Frank Doorhof]

When you write it down like this mr x. Gets à totally different "personna" scketch than he actually is ;(

I feel saddened by what happened. A good name is build In years and can be destroyed in seconds. Only due to people "wanting" to misread or misunderstand something.

Again I had no bad intentions whatsoever. It's no advertising also, all seminars are 100% booked, part of the seminars are non commercial. The workshop delivers me enough money to pay for my travels and I will keep some profit but not enough to cover being away for two weeks.

For me teaching is an honor, especialy as part of the Kelby team so I gladly break even for that. So Please don't paint me as a commercial wolf hunting for freebies.

[BlasR]

So when u ask for a favor, you should pay?  A free workshop, and all its OK?
Favor mean you do not get pay, or pay.

Why the world became be, give me,give me and give me more?  You guy will die, maybe rich, and what you will do with the money?


If you do a favor, walk away, feel good, and move on, why you need to be pay? If you always expect to be pay, never call it a favor, even if you get pay a cent.

I do not know him, and if he would it use my camera even if i have chance to go to his workshop, I wouldn't, for free.  Maybe you will say, but you giving something for free, so what, I do not expect to be pay.

Leave the guy alone, he have a camera already.  BTW I am going to DR anyone there can let me drive a van for 16 people for 12 days?

If you are going to let me use it, remember, I give zero back.  I will send a post card, saying how great all was, and saying thank you.

[BrendanStewart]

I cannot believe some of the people in here.

I always held LL on a higher standard than other forums, but nope... a select few bring this down to DPReview levels.

Frank is one of the most selfless people in the industry. Next time you open your mouth, you should maybe know something about the person that is asking and why they are asking. I mean seriously...

What did some of you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Frank is right, takes years to build up a reputation and seconds to lose it... for simply asking someone to borrow a camera. Frank is quickly becoming a bigger name, yes.... but that doesn't mean he's showered with gear. In fact he isn't. And in this case, like the rest of us, he has to pay/pull some long strings to get pieces of gear.

Some people are just generally pissy and unhappy. I think that's been proven here in this thread, considering it's 3 pages about someone asking to borrow a piece of gear.

[lance_schad]

I did not think such a request would warrant so much activity.

Anyway I had reached out to Frank as soon as I saw the post offline to offer our assistance.

I have known Frank through the forums for many years and have actually had the pleasure of meeting him once when he visited Miami.
Over the years he has been extremely helpful to the people on the forums he has frequented and all the manufactures that he has worked with always spoke with him in the highest regard.

We usually try to help out and support the education of Medium Format Digital wherever possible by supplying equipment, materials or even presenting when requested. My feeling is the more people that are exposed to Medium Format Digital the better it is for the industry and the photography market. It is hard for people to see and feel Medium Format Gear because of its limited distribution.

As a reseller and evangelist of Medium Format Digital it is important to get people to see and experience the difference.

So for anyone concerned Frank will have a Mamiya/Leaf system to use for his upcoming workshops.

Looking forward to assisting you Frank.

Best regards,

Lance lns@digitaltransitions.com