Conflict of Interest Disclosure

[Richowens]

NO, the best cure is courtesy and respect for each other. Quit worrying about what someone else is doing and concern yourself with your own behavior.

When your flatulence has no odor and when you can walk on water and give life to the dead then bring up your dumbass disclosure shit. Until then everyone can
get by without your guidance and pompous bullshit.

Yes this can be called an ad hominem attack on whomever feels guilty(still don't get the who\whom thing) and I apologize to Michael for behaving less than harmonius.

Rich

Now I'll go sit in the corner for bad language.

[Rob C]

NO, the best cure is courtesy and respect for each other. Quit worrying about what someone else is doing and concern yourself with your own behavior.

When your flatulence has no odor and when you can walk on water and give life to the dead then bring up your dumbass disclosure shit. Until then everyone can
get by without your guidance and pompous bullshit.

Yes this can be called an ad hominem attack on whomever feels guilty(still don't get the who\whom thing) and I apologize to Michael for behaving less than harmonius.

Rich

Now I'll go sit in the corner for bad language.

Okay, Rich, whist sitting in the corner, consider this: the verb to be doesn't take an object. It's as simple as that. To, by, with or from whom.

;-)

Rob C

[Richowens]

Rob,

 Thank you, kind Sir. I shall remember that. In my younger days I had an English teacher named Mrs. English. True story. I could be rather unruley and she liked to apply her ruler
to the knuckles of unruley ones. I came to hate English and English. Absorption of lessons ceased.

Rich

[Schewe]

I don't understand why except that in many threads, that is Jeff and the best way to deal with it is to ignore it, not get worked up or involved. I've never seen him get offended if someone does ignore those style of comments and rather the conversation continues to be productive.

I usually don't pick fights...but I finish them. My responses are a mirror, amplified, of the attitude of a given post. Obviously, many people don't like to get called on the carpet and things escalate which is fine by me. It makes things interesting...

As for the full disclosure, it's a red herring...an oblique attack on an unnamed individual. Mike had to do the disclosure statement as the owner of the site due to his interpretation of a change in law. Nobody else who posts articles nor messages are so required. This site is what it is...take it or leave it. You spend nothing here except time (unless you buy the products offered–and thanks if you do). If the OP thinks he's in charge of ethics here on LuLa, I would suggest he's done a very poor job. I don't recall any sort of conflict of interest disclosure from him (not that I could care less).

[bjanes]

I usually don't pick fights...but I finish them. My responses are a mirror, amplified, of the attitude of a given post. Obviously, many people don't like to get called on the carpet and things escalate which is fine by me. It makes things interesting...

Your assertion that you end fights is amusing. Your Chicago manners are obvious, but on the internet you have to leave your Tommy gun and brass knuckles behind. From your participation in Michael's online tutorials, I see that you are a big guy, but I'm sure I could outrun you. Besides there are severe criminal and civil penalties for battery. So I have little to fear.

As for the full disclosure, it's a red herring...an oblique attack on an unnamed individual. Mike had to do the disclosure statement as the owner of the site due to his interpretation of a change in law. Nobody else who posts articles nor messages are so required. This site is what it is...take it or leave it. You spend nothing here except time (unless you buy the products offered–and thanks if you do). If the OP thinks he's in charge of ethics here on LuLa, I would suggest he's done a very poor job. I don't recall any sort of conflict of interest disclosure from him (not that I could care less).

A conflict of interest is not an ethical issue. As I mentioned in my OP, such conflicts are bound to occur with leaders in the field who have personal or financial relationships with vendors. When such a conflict of interest arises by an author who posts an officially sanctioned article and I see statements made by that person that do not seem backed up by data and appear disproportionate to what is reasonable, I have to wonder if that conflict is affecting his judgement, either consciously of subconsciously. It is not necessarily an ethical issue. Conflicts of interest are less likely for the majority of us who merely post opinions or facts backed up by data or reference to reliable sources and have no relationship to a vendor other than the fact that we buy and use their equipment. However, emotional attachment to a particular camera brand can also lead to conflict. Unreasonable statements made by Nikon or Canon fan boys are suspect. Since you like analogies, it is not unethical for me to state that my daughter is a fine young lady, but my recommendation of her to a potential employer would likely be discounted.

Regards,

Bill

[dreed]

Your assertion that you end fights is amusing. Your Chicago manners are obvious, but on the internet you have to leave your Tommy gun and brass knuckles behind. From your participation in Michael's online tutorials, I see that you are a big guy, but I'm sure I could outrun you. Besides there are severe criminal and civil penalties for battery. So I have little to fear.

Why did you write this?
Just to be inflamatory?
How does it help the discussion be productive and useful?

Comments like yours do not help these forums and those on the Internet, in general, be a more genial and productive place.

I was going to respond to Jeff's comments myself, but really, it's not necessary except to say one thing:

whether you start a fight or end a fight makes no difference - the sin is that you were involved in it.

[digitaldog]

Why did you write this?
Just to be inflamatory?
How does it help the discussion be productive and useful?

It isn’t nor was the original post starting all this nonsense.

[Schewe]

I was going to respond to Jeff's comments myself, but really, it's not necessary except to say one thing:

whether you start a fight or end a fight makes no difference - the sin is that you were involved in it.

I too was gonna pass this by but, you said SIN? Really, you think it's a sin to engage in aggressive verbal discourse? I mean, pedophilia is a sin...but short of posting to a pedophilia forum (which this most certainly is not) posting in a general photographic forum almost regardless of what one might post hardly counts as a sin in my book.

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

:~)

To to BJ, if you don't think conflict of interest is an ethics question, I'm really not sure you understand ethics.

[deejjjaaaa]

Mike had to do the disclosure statement as the owner of the site

23 May, 2010 - Changes at Lu-La

Mark Dubovoy and Chris Sanderson have joined Michael Reichmann, the site's founder, in becoming partners in The Luminous Landscape Inc.

[Schewe]

So, now you want full disclosure from Chris? Or is Mark the real target?

[deejjjaaaa]

So, now you want full disclosure from Chris? Or is Mark the real target?

It was just a note to clarify that LL has 3 owners, not 1, even if 2 of them are minority shareholders...

[Schewe]

Yep...but it's Mike's name on the door...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Nice to have a person on the planet without bias, that leaves us with just 6 999 999 999 biased people.

Joke a side, experience with different stuff and knowledge probably reduces bias. I'd also say that I seldom had an issue with any statement Jeff has made, in fact I cannot recall when I felt he was absolutely wrong, but my memory is short.

Best regards
Erik

I am not biased, I am right.  

Look, there is going to be no way to vet the contributions. Disclosures are not going to solve anything. The best cure for the problem is an educated reader (or a thread   ).

[dreed]

I too was gonna pass this by but, you said SIN? Really, you think it's a sin to engage in aggressive verbal discourse? I mean, pedophilia is a sin...but short of posting to a pedophilia forum (which this most certainly is not) posting in a general photographic forum almost regardless of what one might post hardly counts as a sin in my book.

Well, in the context of Internet forums, why wouldn't sin be an appropriate word to use?

I suppose I might also have used the word crime and you might ask should someone go to jail for that? Well, in real life, using aggressive/offensive language can have serious consequences, depending on where, when and who's around, so maybe that is a better word.

I'm not sure if my vocabulary is just too weak to express what I want to say or that I've run into another situation where I just can't find the right word.

Or to put this in another way, when people are fighting in a thread in a forum, I can't tell who's winning but I can tell who's losing - everyone.

[Schewe]

Well, in the context of Internet forums, why wouldn't sin be an appropriate word to use?

Well, I don't know what your background is, but sin has far reaching implications way beyond simply misbehaving when posting to a forum...kinda out of scale. Course I was raised a Missouri Synod Lutheran as a child and wrath of god was the theme. Course, I'm an atheist now. Hey, maybe THEy have a forum! I wonder if there are any conflicts of interest there?

And no, religion is not something I debate...there's no winning when it's faith based–reason goes out the window.

[bjanes]

whether you start a fight or end a fight makes no difference - the sin is that you were involved in it.

In an ideal world we would not have fights, but in the real world, sometimes fighting is necessary. If some thugs are attacking an old woman on the street, what should you do? Was it wrong for Churchill to oppose Hitler with military force? On a similar but less important note, if someone is making incorrect statements on the forum, he should be called out in the most collegial manner possible, but some people respond only to blunt force.

Regards,

Bill

[Christopher Sanderson]

It was just a note to clarify that LL has 3 owners, not 1, even if 2 of them are minority shareholders...

FWIW and 'in the interest of....' blah blah blah, I am am completely biased and in the pocket of those from whom I receive money and who give me stuff: for what I am worth and in my interest. Puhleeeze! If you don't like it here, don't use our bandwidth to tell us so - go somewhere else.

[wtlloyd]

You're skirting a Godwin's Law FAIL.

This thread is now officially ridiculous.

In an ideal world we would not have fights, but in the real world, sometimes fighting is necessary. If some thugs are attacking an old woman on the street, what should you do? Was it wrong for Churchill to oppose Hitler with military force? On a similar but less important note, if someone is making incorrect statements on the forum, he should be called out in the most collegial manner possible, but some people respond only to blunt force.

Regards,

Bill

[ErikKaffehr]

Another definition of sin:



;-) Erik ;-)

Well, I don't know what your background is, but sin has far reaching implications way beyond simply misbehaving when posting to a forum...kinda out of scale. Course I was raised a Missouri Synod Lutheran as a child and wrath of god was the theme. Course, I'm an atheist now. Hey, maybe THEy have a forum! I wonder if there are any conflicts of interest there?

And no, religion is not something I debate...there's no winning when it's faith based–reason goes out the window.

[Rob C]

Rob,

 Thank you, kind Sir. I shall remember that. In my younger days I had an English teacher named Mrs. English. True story. I could be rather unruley and she liked to apply her ruler
to the knuckles of unruley ones. I came to hate English and English. Absorption of lessons ceased.

Rich

I had the same experience with a series of maths teachers (none named Mr Math nor even Mr Matheson) who turned me right off the subject. In the end, in days when it mattered, my then girlfriend, later to be my wife, tutored me through enough maths to get my S2 maths in the engineering course I was stuck in prior to switching to photography. I suppose that suggests that it often is the teacher who is responsible for the failure or otherwise of particular students. But then again, looking at it from the teacher's perspective, with the limited time that can be spent with any individual student...

Rob C