Epson 7900 from the inside - out

[dgberg]

Mark,
What a great idea!

Dano S. Can you help with this?

Ps. To add it was taken from my studio with the head securely taped with all the inks in place.
Strapped in the upright position. Regarding the  packing and shipping cross country from Allentown,Pa. To California I was not present for those efforts.
Eric can tell you how it came into town.
The only thing not discussed to date would be temperature and it's effect on the inks.
But then why only one or two inks and not them all?
Middle of winter and took a week to make the trip?

[na goodman]

Darn, by now the machine is as new as a baby's butt. I think I can say that. Are you saying you did put in a new head and had the service program? And thank you for including the "other" gender. I caught that one. I'm still impressed. You do realize Epson charges thousands of dollars to certify someone every time a new model comes out. So, you could look at it as all the money you saved but gained the knowledge. Something like that. I still have faith that the printer is going to put out a print it just may take longer than expected.

[jeverton]

Eric,

I commend you for your valor and quest to resolve the 7900 printer issues.  The outcome is not what anyone anticipated on this thread and now beckons the call to Epson to help this community understand what is happening with the x900 series printers and the print head. 

This fact still remains; Epson has not endorsed a proper preventative maintenance schedule.

Furthermore, we now must take our journey to another level to reach nirvana and commence investigative efforts around the print head. I’m sure you are already thinking about a contingency plan… Will you be replacing the print head?  Are you planning to call back Epson Technical Support to report the results – to document the situation?

Or perhaps it’s time for us to unite and sign a formal complaint to Epson management. 

Jeff

[Mark D Segal]

Jeff, for clarity, my recommendation is to maintain a non-confrontational approach to Epson, emphasizing the community of interest between the company and its clients to get to the bottom of this highly publicized case.

[Shane Webster]

Eric,

Thank you for your detailed journey--I'm sorry it did not end as we would have hoped. However, I think you've provided some valuable preventative maintenance for our printers.

Mark- I think that you have a great idea concerning Epson and the only item I would add regarding your ponderings is about ink cartridges being removed prior to shipment. On my current replaced 4900, I had Epson test it prior to shipping it to me. The printer was tested and shipped to me with ink cartridges in place. I suspect this ensures a sealed delivery system.

[dgberg]

Eric,

Thank you for your detailed journey--I'm sorry it did not end as we would have hoped. However, I think you've provided some valuable preventative maintenance for our printers.

Mark- I think that you have a great idea concerning Epson and the only item I would add regarding your ponderings is about ink cartridges being removed prior to shipment. On my current replaced 4900, I had Epson test it prior to shipping it to me. The printer was tested and shipped to me with ink cartridges in place. I suspect this ensures a sealed delivery system.

Which is why they were left in place in the 7900 for shipping.

[multigary]

I would like to propose another way of helping Eric. Kind of like farmers getting together to help a member of their community whose barn burns down by organizing a barn raising event.
Eric has already invested a large amount of money in trying to get his printer running. He is likely to have to spend alot more if he has to replace the print head, or if he abandons the project, he's out everything he invested, including his original purchase price.
If Epson comes through and helps, that would be great, but I'm sure that will take awhile to happen. And I wouldn't count on that.
What I'm proposing is that we all make a small contribution to a fund to help defray Eric's cost in this project.
Anyone reading this thread knows what he's been through, and how generous he's been in taking the time to share the details of his ordeal with this community, which will ultimately serve to help us all in the maintenance and possible future repair needed for our own printers.
I have Eric's address, (I bought one of the extra wiper assemblies he graciously offered to sell), but I'm not comfortable offering that without his permission. Instead, I will coordinate forwarding any contributions to him.
If we keep the contributions small, let's say only $1 - $10, then it's no big deal for anyone financially, and hopefully Eric won't tear up the checks (as he refused to accept any refund offer from Dan who sold him the 7900).
Eric, please accept any funds that come out of this and think of it as payment for a maintenance manual you can eventually post for all of us to benefit from.  If by some miracle, you end up with more funds than you need, I'm sure you'll figure out a worthy cause to donate them too.
So here are the details:
Send a check written out to "Eric G" for a small amount (leave a little room after the "G" for his full last name)
Send it to my office:     
                                   Gary Sapolin
                                   171 Katonah Ave
                                   Katonah, NY. 10536
Let's put a time limit of sending it, within the next 3 weeks, so I'm not spending the rest of the year forwarding checks!
I will keep everyone posted as to how it's going, and send everything to Eric in three weeks.
And Eric, don't say you won't accept anything!!!  This is not charity, you have earned it!

[Ken Doo]

Eric,

Bummer about not being able to bring your 7900 frankenstein back to life.  As a relatively new 9900 owner, I find this has been a very educational thread thus far, and I'm primarily interested in gaining further insight/tips & tricks to keep my Epson 9900 running smoothly.  I think a slow, step-by-step tutorial and/video on basic maintenance items like cleaning the wiper, replacing the wiper, and resetting the counter would be very helpful to the community at large.  I think it's pretty safe to say that the vast majority would not delve into their printers to the extent that you have, but basic maintenance/replacement could be what helps to prevent or alleviate a catastrophic clog or head failure.

I was talking to Don Libby who also recently acquired an Epson 9900.  He described the 9800 (which I still have) as that good ole reliable pick-up truck parked out in front. It keeps starting and working reliably no matter what you threw at it.  The 9900 is more like a high-maintenance finicky hot new mate (gender-neutral for na goodman  ) that requires you to pay more attention otherwise he/she won't perform for you.  Treat the printer well (whatever that means), and he/she really delivers like no other.

So like the 9800, I do watch humidity levels with a hygrometer---though with the 9900, I actually do pay more attention to the humidity reading.  Luckily along the central coast it stays fairly humid year round.  I've had more "nozzle clogs detected" with the 9900 in one month than I have with the 9800 over the course of about five years. Knock on wood, I give the 9900 a simple affectionate loving nozzle check and she (yeah, my 9900 is a female) says all is okay, I'm ready for you.    I've decided to do daily nozzle checks, regardless of if I'm printing that day, she seems to like the attention.  The 9800 never cared if I let her sit for a week or so.  I keep the 9900 covered and tucked in when not in use.  I bought a small vacuum (love the Dirt Devil Scorpion!) and take the time to clean the small debris from canvas rolls (both on the canvas ends and on the printer deck).  My thinking is to keep anything that may fall into the abyss from clogging or upsetting my sweet 9900 head.  The 9800 never cared in the least, as the dust bunnies I discovered when moving her can attest.

Anyway, thank you much Eric for sharing your journey.  I'm sure more than a few would be happy to contribute to a Paypal account to compensate you for your time and efforts should you wish to document a step-by-step primer and/or video on basic 79/99** printer maintenance, like the printer wiper assembly.  

Ken

p.s.  While writing this response, I see Gary has responded similarly with regard to donations on behalf of Eric's effforts. (I've met Gary ---he's an upstanding guy, though he may deny knowing me!  )

[rmyers]

I have been following this thread.  I have limited knowledge of the working of the printer.  I think it appears now that the "dead pixel / electrically dead" syndrome is the likely cause of the problem?  If so, I now wonder if electrically dead is cause or effect?  Did the electrically dead portion prevent ink from flowing by not opening, or did a clog become so clogged that the pressure applied trying to push it out caused that portion of the piezo head to become electrically dead, or did the damaged wiper leave ink on the head causing pressure to be applied to the head from the outside?

[dgberg]

I would like to propose another way of helping Eric. Kind of like farmers getting together to help a member of their community whose barn burns down by organizing a barn raising event.
Eric has already invested a large amount of money in trying to get his printer running. He is likely to have to spend alot more if he has to replace the print head, or if he abandons the project, he's out everything he invested, including his original purchase price.
If Epson comes through and helps, that would be great, but I'm sure that will take awhile to happen. And I wouldn't count on that.
What I'm proposing is that we all make a small contribution to a fund to help defray Eric's cost in this project.
Anyone reading this thread knows what he's been through, and how generous he's been in taking the time to share the details of his ordeal with this community, which will ultimately serve to help us all in the maintenance and possible future repair needed for

I have Eric's address, (I bought one of the extra wiper assemblies he graciously offered to sell), but I'm not comfortable offering that without his permission. Instead, I will coordinate forwarding any contributions to him.
If we keep the contributions small, let's say only $1 - $10, then it's no big deal for anyone financially, and hopefully Eric won't tear up the checks (as he refused to accept any refund offer from Dan who sold him the 7900).
Eric, please accept any funds that come out of this and think of it as payment for a maintenance manual you can eventually post for all of us to benefit from.  If by some miracle, you end up with more funds than you need, I'm sure you'll figure out a worthy cause to donate them too.
So here are the details:
Send a check written out to "Eric G" for a small amount (leave a little room after the "G" for his full last name)
Send it to my office:     
                                   Gary Sapolin
                                   171 Katonah Ave
                                   Katonah, NY. 10536
Let's put a time limit of sending it, within the next 3 weeks, so I'm not spending the rest of the year forwarding checks!
I will keep everyone posted as to how it's going, and send everything to Eric in three weeks.
And Eric, don't say you won't accept anything!!!  This is not charity, you have earned it!

Gary,
Thanks for taking the initiative.
My checks in the mail.

[gwhitf]

Treat the printer well (whatever that means), and he/she really delivers like no other.

This is the part that I'm beginning to question -- unless you're trying to hit a weird PMS for a logo or something, I'd love to hear from someone printing real photographs, whether the 9900/7900 "delivers like no other", or whether, side by side, you couldn't tell a print from a 9900 from a print from a 9800. Virtually identical quality and gamut. Again, photographs, not logos.

For the record, my 7900 has printed fine, for months, but when I left it turned off for a week is when my problem began. Something happened during that period that now seems irreversible.

[multigary]

Thanks for the endorsement, Ken! As you know, I'm not a big poster, but this story has moved me enough to want to take whatever small action I can to help.  Just thinking of the ink wasting expenditure Eric has is painful to me, so I'm hoping this move will raise enough money to help defray those ink costs. I hope folks agree, and I hope my offer is not perceived as being silly, but it felt like something I wanted to try to do for a guy who is giving so much of his time keeping us updated, in such detail, about his efforts.

[Don Libby]

Ken was close in capturing my rambling conversation as I compared the 9900 to the 9800. 

The worse printer, meaning high maintenance that I can recall owning is the 4000 with al its clogs.  Replaced it with the 9800 and never had a moment of trouble in the 61-months of use.  In short the printer became that prick up truck you use to haul stuff around (reminds me of how warthog pilots feels about the A-10) it'll take a beating and still be there for more.

I have no doubt the 9900 is soon be in the same position.  However, I had the printer for little over 2-weeks and already had 1-cartridge failure (350mil Photo Black).  And yes it seems to be more finicky about reporting clogs.  I've decided at least for now to keep the auto clean option on and that seems to help.  I've also noticed that just running a nozzle check helps keep the number of warnings down. ck the It's odd however I had a nozzle check show up really bad clogs.  Ran it again and they were gone.  So far the only trouble I've had with a print is the very first when I failed to check the platen gap.  User error on my part.

I live in what could be considered an arid environment.  Compared to here Ken lives in a rainforest.  The heat goes well over 110 for days at a time with the humidity under 10%.  I routinely run a humidifier in my studio keeping it around 40% year round.  I started doing this shortly before I sold the 4000 and it certainly helps.

Now to answer gwhitf's question....

I've been busy printing images for a show in Jackson Hole next week.  I spent 2-months in the area late last year and left there with a print order of 7-sold images and an offer to have a show.  I've been balls to the wall processing and printing everyday since we returned.  The majority of the printing has been done on the 9800.  I actually thought I had all the canvas prints done when I ordered the 9900 however I ran into a major problem with the media that resulted in reprinting on the 9900.  I won't go into the problems here however if you can go on our blog to get a flavor.

So, long story cut somewhat short.  "Treat the printer well (whatever that means), and he/she really delivers like no other."

As in any other change of equipment there is a certain amount of a learning curve.  The workflow I used on the 9800 had become second nature (close to muscle memory).  The 9900 seems to require a little closer detail.  I needed to be double-checking all my setting prior to printing.  I feel this will soon become like the 9800 was and become second nature.  I'm speaking about the lcd panel and CS5 speaking to one-another.  I will admit that I've been too busy to really see what the communications are as I needed to get the prints done.

Can you tell the difference?  I feel I can.  It might be subjective on my part however I feel the images are richer with better tones to them.  Is it on count of the extra inks?  I like to think it is. 

There several other aspects of the 9900 which I fell in lust with right away.  The cutter is scary fast.  I actually feel its the loudest function on the printer.  I can now cut canvas without having to invest in a $500 extra cutter.  It works.

Not having to screw around with a spindle is great.  I've always felt the 2-most dangerous times for media was placing it onto the printer and taking it off the spindle.  No need for it.  This makes changing rolls much easier and faster.

The last of my high-three most favorite is the auto changing of black ink.  I use Breathing Color Lyve canvas which is a matte.  All I have to do is hit a couple buttons and presto the printer is set up with the proper black.  Replace the roll with say Breathing Color Vibrance Rag, press a button and I'm back to printing with Photo Black.

I no longer have the 9800 having donated it to a local high school.  The 9900 was delivered late on a Friday afternoon and early the next morning the first print was coming off it.  I don't miss the 9800.  Is the 9900 that finicky girlfriend Ken mentioned?  Sort of.  But our relationship is young and I have no doubt we'll get along with time.  After all, I married my wife after knowing her less than 28 days - 30 years ago.  If it's right for you you'll know it right away.

This turned out way too long and for that I apologize.

Don

[Mark D Segal]

Mark,
  While it would be an upstanding way to deal with this issue, I'm afraid that Epson/ Seiko would be setting a precedence which would place themselves in a position for major liability or culpability problems in the future . Companies tend to shy away from issues like this.
  There are just too many factors to consider as to the actual cause of failure in each individual case,  as to make any declaration to that effect.
  

David yes, this is a very possible outcome and I thought about all that before I posted. On top of that, I also thought of the fact that Epson owes Eric nothing and need not do anything, for reasons I stated - and the obvious one I forgot to state - that he did a lot to the printer and poured substances into it that Epson may not support. So for all of those reasons they need not get involved and if they don't it would be completely understandable and not reproachable. BUT, all that said, diagnosing a problem does not expose them to liability on a used out-of-warranty printer and makes them culpable for nothing. It's a one-off diagnosis of a one-off problem and the state of the machine can be diagnosed - it's a piece of machinery they know inside-out. Nor was I suggesting they do any more than that pro bono. As for setting precedents - doubtful. It can be handled in a manner that assures this won't be the case. It's all in the messaging and the context. What other factors are there to consider?

[Martin Ranger]

As far as it's effectiveness in clearing un-cloggable clogs - I can speak confidently and from experience now that my genius buddy and I have successfully re-fired our Epson 7900 up and run it through it's paces again - that beyond any measure or trace of doubt, it doesn't work for $*&%@!!!

Your un-cloggable clogs might be different from other people's clogs. A little while ago, I shipped a printer during winter (from myself to myself, so I know it's history). When it arrived, pretty much all the print-heads were no longer working (clogged?). They had been working properly before the printer's journey across the freezing US. I suspected at the time that freezing ink might have destroyed them. Now, it was an HP Designjet whose print heads and ink are completely different from the Epson, so your problem might have a completely different cause. But given that something obviously happened during the trip and that you shipped the printer in winter, I wonder if freezing ink might have anything to do with your problem.

Good luck,
Martin

[Eric Gulbransen]

I don't know what to say other than thank you to all of you for your generous thoughts, kind words, and helpful advice so rich with knowledge and experience.  Like I said at the beginning of this journey, I am just an enthusiast.  You are all more knowledgeable, talented and experienced in this world of photography and printing than I am, by far.  But I do seem to have one rare gift - not necessarily the ability to tell a story, but the will to.  And so here I have, on Luminous Landscape.  Why here rather than on my own blog?  Because no one reads my blog.  Also because most of you have already helped me.  It's been years now I have come here to absorb knowledge I never took the chance to in school.  Sharing this journey has been my way of finally helping you back.  

Would I create some great tutorial videos on 79/9900 maintenance?  I'm already a step ahead of you.  Yes I will.  Been my plan ever since my own endless searches on the subject turned up nothing.  

Would I accept donations of thanks or support?  This would screw up my entire life-plan.  My goal is to live and die broke...  So I offer you the following idea:  At the end of each tutorial video I produce, I will include in the credits a matter in which you can send whatever donation you see fit to.  I am comfortable with whatever comes of that - everything or nothing at all.  

*True story;  While at a shop I race for last week, where they have on display some panoramic photos I both shot and printed, I casually walked by a woman who had two of my photos stretched out over a desk.  I made no eye contact, I didn't even slow down, but I definitely paid attention to her compliments.  As I left the room I heard her say "I'll take both of them please."  

That story does it for me.  It completes the circle, if you will.  I have been passionate about photography for seven years now.  Until recently all my work simply died inside my hard drives.  I visualize everything.  I picture the beginning of my photography to be reading, on here.  The next part is buying gear then learning how to use it.  I plot these steps visually, on an arc.  The arc continues around it's shape while I am out there shooting, then finally back home in post - on the same computer it all started at.  But then forever it has died for me about 75% around, always leaving an empty gap near the end - in my passion, in my reason, and in my results.  But the day I bought these two Epson 4800s and started printing my work, suddenly it all came to life.  The arc became a circle then the circle became a whole new world.  

In truth I have a lot more to thank you all for than you have to thank me for.  So I really am happy to hear that sharing our journey has, and will for a while yet, help others.

[Wayne Fox]

So that leads one to wonder what happened to it from the time it left Dan Berg until you made your first print? How was it prepared for shipment? Were all movable parts properly immobilized? Were the inks removed and cartridges well-sealed? How was it transported, how was was it set-up (was it based on the set-up instructions), how long a time period elapsed from the time you took delivery till the time you started printing? There may be other questions one could ask - one also needs to know what to ask! I assume you are asking yourself about all of this and more.

I might add that I also just recently sold a 7900 (which had been moved a couple of times).  while we removed the ink cartridges and locked the head, the distance was only about 5 minutes so we didn't do extensive preparation.  a couple of weeks later it has also developed an identical problem in the same channel (LLK) where about 30% of the nozzles (a large block in the middle)  will not clear, the nozzle check pattern is identical no matter what we have tried.

I've moved many epson printers and never had an issue, but I suppose there is some chance moving of these more delicate heads could cause some damage.  However, I'm suspecting issues with the wiper might be similar since it has never been cleaned or replace.  we'll be plunging in (we've repaired a lot of other Epsons, never tackled one of the x900 series yet) soon.  We'll soon see what condition the head is in.

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Wayne,

Once you plunge in, if you can detect what the problem is it would be very useful to any one contemplating moving (or having moved) one of these printers to know what you find. This is an interesting observation, but at the same time very puzzling. A small sample (indeed perhaps insignificant) of factors-in-common seems to suggest the possibility that merely moving the printer can have something to do with its performance. That said, the printers need to be moved from where they are manufactured to markets many thousands of miles away in various kinds of transport arrangements and conditions; but they do pack them extremely carefully. Perhaps when the head of a used printer gets jarred in transport it causes an issue. But if you locked the head, why? Perhaps locking doesn't prevent all types of internal damage from jarring. Did the printer get knocked much in a five minute transport? It would be good for the community to know more about this possibility so that any one else transporting machines that aren't covered by service contracts will know what the risks are and how to mitigate them. Again, only Epson can be definitively helpful here.

[Eric Gulbransen]

OK back to the task at hand -

This 7900 was actually shipped in the middle of fall, not the middle winter.  I know because I just read lots of interesting stuff about winter in this Northern Hemisphere.  This year's winter solstice (shortest day/middle of winter) started our winter on December 22.  On November 25th however, this Epson 7900 was actually en-route to California mid-way across the US, tucked inside a Fedex eighteen-wheeler, inside a 200lb wooden crate lined with multiple layers of cardboard.  Ironically this particular fall will likely go down in history as one of the mildest on record.  Here is Noas snapshot of the average temperature of the US during the month of November.  I am not saying this machine was not exposed to cold, or possibly freezing temps.  But strictly in the interest of fueling a more accurate understanding of why this printer doesn't work anymore, I was definitely on Route 80 traveling over the Sierras this December in shorts and a tee shirt.  It's been alarmingly warm this year.  So while it is possible that the ink froze in the head, I actually doubt it.

I will also add to this head-failing mystery the experiences following the machine's arrival:  Packed unbelievably well.  Crate alone weighed 200lbs and took an hour to disassemble - and I'm a carpenter.

Very first print was a nozzle check.  PK showed the same clog I see today, only not as bad.  YW showed the same clog grouping that I see today, only not as bad.  These two clogs have haunted this machine since day-one of my possession.  Cleaning attempts have only made these clogs gradually get worse.  Cleaning solution run through it's lines on these problem channels made absolutely no difference.  Removing the head, soaking it's face in solution for 24hrs, then sucking a fresh mix of that same solution up through it's face also made NO DIFFERENCE.  Not worse, not better.  Exactly the same.

The only difference I have seen on these clogs is them gradually getting worse.  That suggests to me that freezing ink damaging these particular nozzles, leading to these particular clogs, is not the most probable cause.  I am not saying this is not possible.  It just doesn't feel like the answer.  

I am, however, suspect of these two carts/colors having such old expiration dates on them (both 2010).  The PK and YW carts were both 700ml carts, both about 60% empty.  From what Dan told me he also has a 9900, and therefore used this 7900 less often.  I don't know, maybe these two carts have been opened far longer than 6 months?  Maybe the older ink has more of a tendency to clog.  

Finally, considering clogs, I would like to put a request out there to all who know so much more than I do about these heads, and Piezoelectricity
in particular;  What happens to these electrically charged crystals if they are kept from "changing their shape" once an electrical field is applied to them?  For instance, if I run my circular saw through a wet beam, which results in tremendous resistance and binding of the blade, the saw's motor will burn out.  Now I know Piezoelectricity is entirely different than my circular saw's alternating current motor, but can the same laws apply?  If you lock up these tiny crystals and charge them with an electrical field which would otherwise cause them to "move" but in this case they cannot, could this cause them to burn out?  Because if this is possible, it would then be possible for dried ink to lock up a group of crystals and burn them out.

If this theory holds water then I can understand how a compromised wiper blade, which jammed more "tar" into the head than it cleaned off, could possibly ADD to a clogging problem - which in turn could explain why my clogs in particular have only gotten worse with cleanings - not ever better

[Mark D Segal]

You may be on to something - hence all the more interest to see it properly analyzed by people who know the technology intimately.