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Author Topic: The Future of Lighting!  (Read 11767 times)

BryanEdwards

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The Future of Lighting!
« on: January 16, 2012, 03:37:20 pm »

Hey everybody,

Just wanted to share a technique I have been working on and would just like to get some feedback/suggestions on it. So in essence I am just projecting black and white images made in Photoshop onto diffusion material (or white walls). These masks determine how the reflection are lit. Its kind of a glorified light painting technique. So for me this technique is more useful for product and still life photography. As projectors aren't super bright I have to work in a darker environment and use sometimes longer shutter speeds. But I do think it could be applicable to all types of photography where additional light is needed.

Anyway here is a video I made trying to explain it.

LKaven

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 04:50:02 pm »

Very cool!  What better way to surgically control light spill?  A lot of possibilities in that. 

Could you recommend a BW projector that offers the most for the money in this application?

roskav

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 05:36:10 pm »

Very interesting... you say the projector is gelled to combine with strobes or other lights coming from the front ... I presume the type of gel depends on the characterisitcs of the projector.  Also is a gel the best way to get a colour into the projector light rather than try to use the projector's colour .. even though it has inherent issues?  I'm thinking an rgb projector on wouldn't suit short exposures though.  I wonder did people try this with overhead projectors in the days before digital ones?
R
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BryanEdwards

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 06:00:56 pm »

The projector I use is a viewsonic PJ506D I got it for like $250ish a year ago on CL. In my opinion DLP projectors are the best for this technique.

I have also tried it with a Canon sx7 and had some issues with color casts. To eliminate that problem almost entirely with my projector I moved the RGB color wheel out of the light-path. Thus the projector only projects in grayscale. I assume if a DLP projector has a B&W mode it might involve the projector shutting off its colorwheel and parking it on the clear partition (used for registration).

So to answer your question LKaven I don't know any specific projectors that work well except for what I got. But I would look into anything that is DLP, bright (measured in lumens) and high contrast.

Roskav:
Yes the projector is gelled to match the strobes. That just seemed easier to me to put a 2x2 inch gel over the projector lens instead of to gel all my lights, but yes it does rely on the color temp of lamp. Since my projector is essentially permanently operating in grayscale I cannot speak to whether adding color in PS is easier than using CC gels, but it would be cool to mess around with selective coloring.

Initially I did toy with the idea of using an overhead projecter. My idea with that was to take it a step further and put an LCD screen over the part where you put the transparencies. I also wanted to replace the bulb with a strobe tube. I did play around with putting a LCD screen on top of the Bronboxlite http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6458-REG/Broncolor_32_341_07_Boxlite_40_Lamphead.html but the polarization on the LCD cut out a substantial amount of light. I am working toward changing the source of my projector to a flashtube to see how the contrast of the chip holds up.

EricWHiss

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 12:58:36 am »

Neat Idea! Thanks for sharing!
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hjulenissen

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 01:38:09 am »

Do you think it would be possible to change the bulb of a projector, using a camera flash instead?

Might also be interesting to connect the projector to camera liveview output and modulate the lighting pattern as a direct function of what the camera sees.

-h
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Ben Rubinstein

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 09:16:32 am »

Very very clever and perhaps just given me the solution to a lighting problem I've had for 6 months where to create the mask on the background using light modifiers sucessfully would have involved a lot of very expensive equipment. Thanks!
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 12:45:39 am »

I am amazed by this! Thanks for posting. It is very clever indeed. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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RFPhotography

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 08:46:54 am »

Essentially you're using the projector instead of a standard constant light.  Correct?  The same technique could be done with a regular constant light, couldn't it?  Or a small strobe, for that matter.  Those lights might have to be snooted or otherwise directed but it should work, shouldn't it?  I don't quite understand how the watch could be backlit and still have the face be as visible as it is.  Seems to me if it were backlit you'd have a similar problem to the label of the bottle.  How are you controlling light spill?  I understand you're shooting in a dark environment but there's still going to be spill around the sides of the backlit object isn't there?  Then there's the post-production time of painting in your masks in PS.  Is this more efficient that just lighting the object properly at the time of shooting?  I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't fully see the benefit of this approach and am trying to understand.  Maybe I'm not seeing the connection between your comment "in essence I am just projecting black and white images made in Photoshop onto diffusion material (or white walls)" and what's shown in the video.  Are you creating an image in Photoshop first?  Is the projector connected to a laptop?  Do you take measurements of the object first to determine how to size the mask in Photoshop?  And then correlate the projected size based on the distance of the projector to the screen and the light spread?
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Wills

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 11:04:53 am »

The bottle is backlit however the watch isn't, it's sitting on a table pointing towards the projector screen that is being backlit, through the mask he controls how much light is allowed to reach the watch face.
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RFPhotography

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 11:15:02 am »

the watch isn't, it's sitting on a table pointing towards the projector screen that is being backlit

This is what I figured.  So I'm not seeing the benefit or difference between this method and a regular strobe or constant light shone through a softbox or other diffusion material.

Quote
through the mask he controls how much light is allowed to reach the watch face.

I'm not seeing how this exactly works.  It isn't clear; at least to me. 
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Wills

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 11:31:48 am »

Please excuse my dreadful sketching ;D it just seemed easier to draw it than explain it.

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BryanEdwards

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:33:01 am »

Yes this same type of lighting can be done with traditional sources. The thing is the projector allows for more detail, more control, on a smaller budget. Just imagine the the 40x60 or larger area the projector lights as one soft box face. Now the projector allows me to only let through say a 1 inch circle of light or an infinite amount of abstract shapes of darkness and light. This is something that would be much much harder to do with a traditional soft box. Generally when people try to light products in an extremely detailed manner like this many more lights and grids and snoots and grip are required. (this is a huge cost savings) Now yes my technique does require some playing with dynamic range; black inst always 100% black as contrast with projectors is better this issue is resolved, and it isn't always an issue. No matter how I shoot a backlit bottle it will be pathed out in PS. And generally I recognize achieving the final shot in one plate is impossible, but this means less plates and less time messing around with comps in PS later.

But to me the greatest advantage of this technique is I can sit at the camera look through the ground glass and see exactly what I am lighting. Even if I had assistants messing with grids, flags, masks, cinefoil etc and lighting budget was no issue I still wouldn't have 100% control on how I lit my object. (maybe a HUD display of the LV feed of the camera would be a close second) I generally open PS fullscreen and have a wacom in my lap, if I am looking an flipped image via sliding back ground glass I simply rotate my wacom. If I needed to use strobe I can still prelight with the projector and use the projected mask as a template.

BryanEdwards

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 11:36:37 am »

@ William

Haha thank you for saving me from having to draw a setup sketch. That is pretty much it. One detail is the laptop controlling the projector is right next to me and I have a drawing tablet hooked up to that. But yet backlit for the bottle.

RFPhotography

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 01:09:04 pm »

Sorry.  I'm still not seeing how this actually works.  Perhaps a more comprehensive video would do it.  But it's really not making a lot of sense to me. 
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Wills

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 01:30:55 pm »

I hope I didn't steal your sketching thunder Bryan  ;D it's a very good use of technology and I do like the idea of completing a shot in a single frame well done and thanks for sharing your video.
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EgillBjarki

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2012, 06:13:29 am »

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! It's a new way of painting with light! The only problem comes when shooting with digital backs that only allow a 30 second long exposure, add that to ISO 50 and f/16 and you need more light I can imagine.
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mediumcool

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 05:13:48 am »

Sorry.  I'm still not seeing how this actually works.  Perhaps a more comprehensive video would do it.  But it's really not making a lot of sense to me. 

The technique as shown in the video, and in the [can I call it a] sketch is useable with transparent and translucent subjects with the screen behind, and with reflective subjects using the screen at appropriate angles. What’s not to get?  ;D
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Christopher Sanderson

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 11:51:38 am »

I hope you are rewarded for this - The Infinite Gobo Award ?? - the most clever lighting technique I have seen. Congratulations.

Hulyss

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Re: The Future of Lighting!
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2012, 02:07:58 pm »

I hope you are rewarded for this - The Infinite Gobo Award ?? - the most clever lighting technique I have seen. Congratulations.

What he said. That is genius. Truelly awesome !
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