Epson Exhibition Matte Canvas - Two Thumbs Up!

[Landscapes]

Long story short, I was getting very frustrated with my current canvas.  Not sure if I had an old batch (don't know if this can happen), or a bad one, but it was cracking like crazy (even after 8 coats of Timeless Matte.  The glossy Timeless works much better but of course all the stores seem to sell only matte finishes on their gallery wraps).  First I thought I was stretching too tight, then I thought the edges on my stretcher bars weren't curved enough, then I thought maybe spraying isn't as durable since I was rolling before and that seems to attach better to the canvas, but I was all set to go and pick up some Breathing Color Lyve to try.  When I got to the store, which specializes in Epson products even though they do carry some Breathing Color stuff, the guy showed me some of this newish Epson Exhibition Canvas.  I was quite impressed with how it looked given that it wasn't coated.  The resistance to cracking when folded over was amazing.  So I promptly picked up a roll.

After printing, I was quite delighted to see that my current profile matches 95% so I can just carry on printing for a bit until I have time to get another customer profile made.  After only 3 coats of Timeless matte on a sample, I was amazed that there was no cracking at all.  Best of all, the canvas also has some elasticity built in so when I did stretch it over bars, I didn't have to put in so much tension to get all the wrinkles to come out.

Anyway, so I'm quite amazed that all my problems were solved with just changing the canvas.  Its also cheaper than the Breathing Color Lyve I was looking to buy.  I spent hours pouring over so many threads on here and so I just wanted to report back to the forum to help others.  The guy at the store said ever since this new Epson canvas came in, their sales of the BC canvas have dropped significantly.  Surprisingly, he also said most people don't coat their canvases.  The satin finish canvas that I could also touch seemed even more durable (although I though a little too rigid), so perhaps there are people not coating and not having problems, but since I wanted the matte finish and don't mind spraying a few coats, I'm quite happy with getting the cheaper matte canvas and just spraying.  Will also try now to see if just 2 heavy coats will be good enough.  Now how the heck do I increase my sales since I'm ready to go into mass production with little effort now?

[KenBabcock]

Two thumbs down for not being water resistant like their Premium line was. 

Now it's just like that crap from Fredrix that Indel Davis sells in Mississauga.

Way to take a step backwards, Epson.

[Farmer]

Why do you think it's no longer water resistant?  What are you wanting to do that you can't now?  You can still coat it, for example.

[Landscapes]

Two thumbs down for not being water resistant like their Premium line was. 

Yup... I can see how that could be a two thumbs down.  I fortunately spray now so this isn't an issue, and it certainly doesn't run or anything like that.  The coating on the canvas is giving me even more resolution than the previous canvas I was using,  so I'd say the fact that it isn't water resistant isn't a problem for me.

[Wayne Fox]

We are delivering it uncoated and haven't had any real problems (customers just don't want to pay for coating).  We've done PB profiles for the non coated ones.  It doesn't scuff as easily as the old water resistant canvas, wraps much better.

The odor when printing is horrible ... we have to open doors and turn on exhaust fans.  Smells up the entire store. What's up with that?

[KenBabcock]

Why do you think it's no longer water resistant?  What are you wanting to do that you can't now?  You can still coat it, for example.

I don't think it's no longer water resistant, I know it isn't 

Applying your topcoat by roller lifts the ink right off the canvas.  The new Exhibition line must be sprayed.  I don't want to spray.  I rather like rolling my topcoat on.  That is not possible now.

[KenBabcock]

We are delivering it uncoated and haven't had any real problems (customers just don't want to pay for coating).  We've done PB profiles for the non coated ones.  It doesn't scuff as easily as the old water resistant canvas, wraps much better.

The odor when printing is horrible ... we have to open doors and turn on exhaust fans.  Smells up the entire store. What's up with that?

Wayne, are you using the Exhibition Satin or Gloss?

[Landscapes]

Wayne, are you using the Exhibition Satin or Gloss?

I'm curious as well because I think the matte would still be too fragile.  I saw the Satin one at the store as well, and although the specs seem to shows its thinner, I found it to be noticeably stiffer than the matte.  I wonder if it would stretch just as well because of this.  On the other hand, I know that it is more expensive, but if I could just get away with spraying one coat of matte timeless on the satin canvas to bring it back to a matte surface and have no issues with cracking at the corners, then this might be a good investment and worth the price difference. Curious to hear any discussion regarding the matte vs. satin if anyone out there has used both.

[jmlamont]

I have used Epson Exhibition Satin Canvas for about ten 20" by 30" prints. Applied EcoPrint Shield Glossy (2 coats) and Satin (1 final coat) by roller after letting things dry for at least two full days. Absolutely no problems. None. In fact, I have been astonished at the excellence of this combination: easy stretching, no cracking, excellent gamut and Dmax (although below 30, everything is simply black; but can distinguish up to 252!). Tough, good looking, and simple to use. My clients love it. I do not understand the complaints I am hearing above, not at all. (Except, that is, for the smell: it does stink initially, no question.)

[KenBabcock]

Perhaps the satin/glossy finishes are a little more forgiving when rolling Eco Print Shield than the matte version.

I usually only purchase matte canvas because I control the final sheen anyway so there has never been any point in me purchasing glossy canvas if I'm just going to cover the finish anyway.  No point in paying an extra $50 for glossy, well, maybe until now.  I might give the glossy Exhibition a try.

[JohnHeerema]

I've been using the gloss version, and quite like it.

I had originally ordered the satin finish - but when my dealer accidentally brought in the gloss version, I decided to give it a try. I found that I like the extra gamut volume in comparison to the matte finish, and  the gloss finish was more forgiving of the display lighting than I had expected.

I sometimes coat, and sometimes not, depending on where the piece will go. I had originally planned to mix Glamor II gloss and satin finishes, but again my dealer only had the gloss, so I gave it a try. It worked nicely with my HVLP sprayer, and it barely changed the surface appearance, so I've stuck with the gloss Glamor II. I've never tried rolling, so I don't know what I might be missing in terms of convenience.

[KenBabcock]

John, how scratch resistant is the gloss?  Sometimes clients want a topcoat applied and sometimes they don't (and I usually cringe and apply a matte topcoat anyway to avoid future comebacks).  I'm trying to get an idea of how the canvas will hold up for those that choose not to topcoat.

I was waiting and hoping for BC's Crystalline for this reason, but it would appear Crystalline is no more.  There is no mention whatsoever of Crystalline on their website now.  I was hoping this would be my replacement canvas.  Sihl (who makes Epson) already has one on the market like Crystalline but I won't order it from the incompetent fool at Indel Davis that has never printed large format, and they are the closest Sihl supplier to me.  Shipping from the US is too expensive.  Fortunately, I have an Epson supplier just 3 blocks from my house.... no shipping fees.  I was disappointed losing the Premium line and disappointed with the Exhibition matte, however, if the gloss does what I want and need I'd be extremely happy.

[JohnHeerema]

Ken, I haven't really done any testing of the Exhibition Gloss for scratch resistance when it hasn't been coated, but my casual experience says that it's pretty good. I'm not always as careful as I always should be when I stretch canvas, but I have yet to lose a canvas from careless handling.

The only time I had a minor problem was when I stretched an uncoated canvas with a black surround, and got some black ink on my fingers. Even so, you have to look closely to see where the ink came off (but I now coat prints if they have a black surround, or if I think that they will be hung where people could spill stuff on them). That's not to say that you can't rub the ink off if you try hard enough, but I don't see it happening in my version of "normal use".

[KenBabcock]

Thanks John.  I might try a 13"x20' trial roll for testing.

I still haven't settled on a permanent Epson Premium replacement, so perhaps this is it.  Keep my fingers crossed.

[louoates]

I've had zero problems with the new canvas. I just use the matte. I've switched to a new sealer, Clear Shield Type C, from Marabu-North America that I like far better than the usual sealers mentioned in this thread. Mainly because it doesn't glop up on the bottom of the container after sitting around for a few months. I just roll on 2 or 3 light coats of matte over about an hour's time.
I have a frame shop do the stretching for me and they have no problems at all with this canvas. Since I sell most of my canvasses through a gallery I wouldn't want to risk not sealing them.
Occasionally I have someone print my large canvases on an Epson 6000 with solvent inks. I'm not sure the canvas brand but the profiles they use are as good as what I use when I print on my Epson 9800. Those I don't seal but they stretch fine without any problems. The only way to scratch those solvent inks is with a screwdriver. Water and Windex has no effect either.

Question: Why black wraps? I thought that went out long ago. My galleries and buyers all prefer part of the image to be on the sides. Just me?

[KenBabcock]

I've never tried the Clearstar.  Main reason is where I live.  We don't have many choices locally and having anything shipped across the border costs way too much.

I can't answer for John, but I still do a lot of black edges.  I don't know if it's just my luck, but it seems most images given to me to print have arms, legs or heads real close to the edge.  If I wrap the image I'd lose some limbs.  If I mirror it people look strange with 3 arms.  In that situation I suggest to them a coloured border to wrap around the edge and most of the time black is chosen.  Occasionally blue, but 99% of the time the client selects black themselves.

The weird part to that is I wrap almost everything around 3/4".  If I were to use gallery bars at 1 1/2" or even thicker I'd be wrapping half their bodies around the edges. 

[Colorwave]

Some images are a breeze, and others take a lot of hand manipulation to avoid ugly artifacts.  Oftentimes, with people, there is no good solution to avoid a solid edge, but I don't get lots of people images to print.  There are still lots of inanimate objects and animals that look ridiculous if you don't do something to avoid ugly mirror artifacts.  I'm particularly unfond of trees that lean into the frame which wind up looking like Vs that hang in mid air when mirrored.

Like Ken, I always try to steer clients towards coating, and have been known to sometimes apply light coats without charge to avoid potential problems later.

[JohnHeerema]

I don't do a lot of black edges.

It's sometimes a pain to add a natural-looking edge for the wrap, but that's what I usually do. Often that means "fabricating" part of the scene that wasn't captured, because I tend to crop shots pretty much the way I want them at capture time, and never seem to think about capturing a bit extra for the canvas wrap. I find adding realistic fingers and toes to be particularly trying: fortunately that's hardly ever required(!) I'd like for there to be an easy way to automate this, but I don't see that happening. As others here have noted, I don't find that mirroring looks all that great.

What I use black edges for is multi-image canvases, where I use black in between the individual images, and for the borders.

[louoates]

99% of my canvasses are landscapes, so no toes to worry about mirroring. I also don't like to mirror tree branches or geometric shapes exactly. Most time I just clone over the obvious odd angles and use the blur brush. Worst case, I'll blur the devil out of the entire mirror area. I may spend ten minutes on a mirror job, tops. I've never had a complaint from a customer or gallery, thank goodness.
Once in a while I'll duplicate an edge without mirroring and that does away with lots of the odd angles. A lot depends upon the image. Skies are always easy mirroring but I might clone out a duplicate cloud or two.
My rip has an automatic mirroring feature but I never use it because it just mirrors with all the drawbacks discussed here.

John,
   If your image is lacking edges to work with due to cropping in camera you might try the content-aware scaling tool where you simply stretch out the image edges you do have to fill the mirror area. I've used that several times with good results.

[BillZ]

 Ken, Just a note on BC's Crystalline canvas. I was told by a sales rep that they temporarily took it off the market until they could build up enough stock. He said it would be available sometime in January or early February. He explained that it was a very complex production process. They had such a high demand for the sample rolls and advance sales that they could not keep up on production. They wanted to stockpile before re-releasing just to guarantee quality control.
 I was able to get a recent sample roll of the gloss and it looks great. I did't try stretching any yet, but bending it over a sharp edge didn't show any cracking. It's fairly water resistant, as long as you don't wipe it to hard. I tried to smear it with a wet finger and it took a bit of rubbing to remove any ink.

Bill