Scarlet

[ftbt]

yeah I emailed them asking " if I order a scarlet today approximately when would I get it, 3 months, 6 months?" they couldnt answer the question

Just like me. " ... you pays your money ... and you waits in line ..."

[ftbt]

Guess how long it will take to score a Bomb EVF to go with a Scarlet.

If you want one bad enough there are always 1 or 2 for sale in the classifieds over at Red User. I think I saw one today as a matter of fact for $2,900.00.

[Bern Caughey]

If you want one bad enough there are always 1 or 2 for sale in the classifieds over at Red User. I think I saw one today as a matter of fact for $2,900.00.

Haven't made up my mind yet, & likely won't invest until I can hit the "Buy Now" button, but your information greatly eases part of the decision.

Thanks,'
B

[bcooter]

Bern,

If you wait for a RED Buy Now button to not have the word's "back ordered", then you'll be 106 years old.

But, if you'll buy 4 RED Tshirts, do three videos of you opening your first RED box, attend 6 REDUCATION (called assimilate) classes, teach 4 of them, blog about it 7 days a week, then you'll be able to buy a RED bomb for a 2.4% discount in a week.

Don't think that just writing a deposit check will do it, in fact don't even try to use a check or a credit card, because if you want to buy a new camera in a day or two, you will have to go in with $22,500 in cash while they go into the back room and count it out (true story).


IMO

BC

[Bern Caughey]

...you will have to go in with $22,500 in cash while they go into the back room and count it out (true story).

Hmmmm...

www.red.com/store/lenses/product/red-pro-prime-set-i

[ftbt]

Actually, if you wanted a R1 MX, now is the time to buy. It seems the bottom has dropped out of the market for those cameras. Quite a few complete R1 MX packages-w-lots of goodies available in the $13,000.00 - $15,000.00 range. Some with really low hours and never rented. I know I was seriously tempted, but since most of my shooting is more mobile/discreet "one-man-band" type of stuff, I didn't think an R1 would work for me. 13-15K for camera like the R1 is a steal! Hell, my first Beta SP rig set me back nearly $30,000.00! Go figure? That was then .... this is now ....

[Hywel]

Yeh, I was very tempted by a second-hand RED One, which is why I hired one to try it out.

Unfortunately, it turned out to be too cumbersome and heavy for my one-man-band shoots.

But I fell instantly in love with doing grading in something that felt like a RAW workflow, which is why I've ponied up for a Scarlet. I'm assuming I will get one eventually but have absolutely NO idea when. I agree with bcooter's comments on the RED business model. I recall a phrase "these guys have practically alien technology", and I think that's how they can get away with it. No-one else seems to have a RAW-like cine camera anywhere near to market at RED-like price points. RED are the only ones making the product I want at a price I can afford right now.

The C300 is a missed opportunity, because although the footage I've seen from it is spectacular, I just can't around the on-paper limitations of 8-bit, 50 Mbps codec and basically the same price point as the Scarlet. If it did RAW-like 422/444 at full HD at something more like 400 Mbps, I'd have ordered one.

Cheers, Hywel.

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Isn't the Sony F65 in the Epic ballpark at $65K?

• It is 'true' 4K (only green sites counted), and can scale up to 8K with a future firmware update.
• RAW is 16-bit - with info on all 20MP.
• 14 stops of DR.
• No rolling shutter - the F65 uses a rotary shutter.
• Sony can (potentially) deliver worldwide service, support and repair. The same holds true for Scarlet vs the F3.

[fredjeang]

Yes. If I had the money I'd go for the F65.

[ziocan]

Isn't the Sony F65 in the Epic ballpark at $65K?

• It is 'true' 4K (only green sites counted), and can scale up to 8K with a future firmware update.
• RAW is 16-bit - with info on all 20MP.
• 14 stops of DR.
• No rolling shutter - the F65 uses a rotary shutter.
• Sony can (potentially) deliver worldwide service, support and repair. The same holds true for Scarlet vs the F3.

yes that is the price for an f65.
IMO it is a no brainer.
Normally Sony cameras work out of the box and can be had with all that has to go along.

[jessuca09]

Billy, for your work Red is overkill. For stills it's just an APS-C sensor.

[Bern Caughey]

http://philipbloom.net/2012/02/05/review-of-the-red-scarlet-x/

[bcooter]

We just received our Scarlet today . . . well everything but the handle and the rear module, though it works and we've only had a few hours with it, I find it really amazing.

Now take this with a grain of salt as we're shot nothing of importance with it or put it through hard use, but overall, I'm amazed.

The autofocus is not perfect but very good and offers a lot of options.  You can go continuous, manual, or pick a spot on the lcd.

The lcd is a work of art and if any medium format camera had this they would sell off the shelves.

You can focus with it without zooming and to zoom you do the ipod two finger stretch and it zooms in, do it again and it zooms out.

The screen (since we don't have the rear module) is where all the controls are and it's fairly intuitive, but once again really amazing in look and function.

The camera is military grade (at least it feels that way) and the size is almost perfect.

To each his own, but if I shot a lot of documentary work, (I don't) this to me is the perfect camera due to weight, the Canon lenses, the cost etc.

It may have some downsides but in a few hours we haven't had time to find them.

We went to 2000 iso and without really crunching the file, but so far it looks good.

Mr Bloom seems to think it's Epic cheap, but except for the lack of full frame high speed frame rate, it does everything I could ask and if I need real slow mo, 120 fps doesn't cut it anyway.

I don't know Mr. Bloom but i think he's been working too man plastic cameras.

Anyway, Love the camera and hope it works as well as we anticipate.

Red can be maddening, deliver late and could qualify for a cult, but when they do deliver they really break new territory.



IMO

BC

[fredjeang]

I turn the problem up side down, strech it left to right,

making numbers,

evaluated the post workflow with files of almost any camera available except the Phantom,

looking on the lens and accessories lands,

and the only conclusion I'm falling on to in any possible equation is: the Red system. There is nothing else that suits my needs-style so well to date.

Ps: I dunot understand either the Bloom's complain about high speed because with 120, not so much can be done anyway and better to rent a specialized camera for slow-mo.
Then about available light I don't find the R3D particularly weack on that aspect. Oh well...

[fredjeang]

Also,

I think there are really serious thinking heads in the Red crowd.

Because just take a CaNikon production of what they call fashionably "multimedia". So I go to Nikon website, see the camera, and a Mic Rhode type. Point.
So all the rest has to be thrid-partied, e-bayed or amazoned, crossing fingers that the overall mecano would suit more or less the multimedia requierements with a bit of gaffer tape.

I go to Red website and what I see is not only Raw cameras but a complete system absolutly spot-on. The cages are amazing, exactly the perfect design for the camera in question,
pro cables have the right conectors, the right lengh.

I don't even need any more to look for another Pelican that will fit more or less but a dedicated case for each camera. The LCD is integrated, the bomb evf is a sexual bomb. They sell all you need to shoot seriously with the minimum of volume (for ex those third-party cages are generally too big and in fact you can not mount many accessories on them).
And as Coot said, all that, accessories included, doesn't seems a plastic gadgetery at all but serious equipment made to last long under any condition.

Yes, at Red there are people who really think, and for what I'm seeing, they are not idiots.


And the most amazing of all is that no competition manufacturers seems to be answering to it, they just turn arround the problem with no ideas.

[Bern Caughey]

120 fps is pretty useful, & wish my cameras went there. One common example are those silky/flowy hair commercials.

But I certainly wouldn't pay the price difference between a Scarlet and an Epic just to get there. 48 fps is my most common slomo frame rate anyways, as it's easy to retime to 24fps when needed, so 48fps at 3k would be very usable.

James,

Congrats on your new tool. Sure you'll drive it like you stole it.

Here'a an excerpt from an ASC's article about the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo

“I like the picture the Red gives me, the way it feels,” says Fincher. “Ultimately, that’s what people are talking about when they say they prefer one format over another. When people speak fondly of the anamorphic lenses from the 1970s, they’re talking about the feeling they get from that certain kind of image. I like the Red One MX a lot — in fact, I wish we hadn’t switched to the Epic at the end of our shoot. There’s nothing wrong with the Epic, but I sort of like the graininess of the MX [image]. It’s an aesthetic choice, not a technical one.”  
From Fincher’s perspective, perhaps the biggest advantage of the Red is its size. “Because it’s small, I feel like the filmmaking process itself becomes sort of intimate,” he says. “Filmmaking is a small circus — that’s the nature of the beast — but I prefer to keep it as intimate as possible. When the mechanics become too consuming, it’s too easy to get distracted from the real reason we’re there: to capture the actors’ performances. When the gear gets too big, I feel like there’s a wall between my cast and me, and it’s hard to get around it to talk to them. I really prefer to have that relationship, that connection, be immediate. How we shoot, where we shoot and what we shoot with all play a role in finessing that relationship.”

http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/January2012/GirlwiththeDragonTattoo/page1.php

Best,
B

[Morgan_Moore]

We just received our Scarlet today . . .

I think Mr bloom has found the 2k mode 'soft' or something

I don't know if you have tried it

I don't know why he is not a litte more excited

If I were going over 10 big ones Id be wanting Raw .. and 60 at 2k and 120 at close to 1k whacks the 1080 C300/F3 anyway

Can you do a nice focus pull with the canon lenses and no FF using the screen ?

Best

SMM

[bcooter]

Fred,

I'm not saying other cameras are not innovative or good, because we've come from handicams and 100 lb. engs, to finally film killing magic.

I just think RED with all their quirks has hit a sweet spot in the market like nobody else has addressed.

Sure with RAW there is another step to go through, same with raw stills, but it offers more back in safety and a few more options.

The Scarlet is the camera I don't understand as it's essentially an Epic with a few less features and 1/4 the price. 

Bern,

As far as FPS, I'd like 120 fps with the full frame, (though I've never used our RED one's past 29.97) but heck I'd also like 1000 fps.

Still for the price if it turns out to be reliable it's well worth it.

I'm always fascinated by brand loyalty though.  Traditional film guys scream Arri, it seems like the Indie guys has the hots for the Canon 300 and all of that is fine and it's their business what they use.

The Arri I understand more than the Canon because at least the Arri is more familiar territory for traditional film crossover.

The Canon confuses us, because you must pick one mount and stick with it, and why didn't Canon offer autofocus.  Canon lenses on the RED will autofocus.

Canon started with a clean sheet so I would have thought the 300 would have been a RED/Arri/5d2/5d3/Nikon Killer but in ways it's more 16mm camera than full fledge production camera.

At least that's how I would position it.

All the RED's are not perfect, but very useable is a lot of situations and for a hand held camera it's going to be a gas.

What I look forward to is shooting 5k 12fps sequences as for some personal and commercial work, I love the cut frame look.

Anyway, I'll know more about the camera very soon and if it works out we'll probably order one more for backup.

Morgan,  I don't know about 2k or 1k.  I don't know if we'll ever use it though for you when we test it out I'll try it to see.

As far as Mr. Bloom, he has a different business model than we do and I'm not being a critic, but I think his experience with the Epic kind of turned him off on RED, but reading between the lines, it appears that some of his Epic experience was a little buyers remorse, though once again I do not know Mr. Bloom.

IMO

BC

[Morgan_Moore]

Remorse..

My five minutes spent with an Epic had me hooked

As you say military build my FS100 and I guess the C300 are not in the same build class also 1080 'muzzo vision'

(although the F65 and Alexa have that too I guess - have you seen the burnt alexa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owgcWuQkGT8)


S

[fredjeang]

Bern,

About 120 for hair commercials, mmm. It depends. I've been trying with a videographer in testings and it looks good in a way but it still looks "cheap". It just depends on the budget, but I wasn't fully convinced. Of course, the more we can get from a camera, the best and more versatile, but I don't consider the lack of high-speed of the Epic a big downside because high speed is not 120.
I think that to do really good slow-mo properly we need a dedicated camera. 120 is great to have but still limited and compromise.

I'm sort of learning that it's better not to buy something in between because it adds a "certain" capability if it's not really there either. But each person has reasons for a choice.
So in the end if I got a serious slow-mo stuff, I better rent that trying to deal with 120 wich really isn't the grail.

James,

Of course there are others than Red that are incredibly inovative. I'm actually following a little brand with a lot of interest (no motion).

But Red has understood something very important IMO, I ignored they had such an integrated system at that point and I think that

they will dominate a market that's not just a niche. They are on the path to dominate the motion scene of the next decades from the middle to high-end.

I'm seeing editorials shooted on Red, still frames and the output is gorgeous. I simply prefer it than the MF traditional stills. They look more like the film age fashion shots, not digital at all. The Red stills are brilliant too. They vibrate and remind me the Peter Lindberg apogée. So even if the res is "not" there, the look is impressively good.

I'm very surprise to see so little accurate responses from the competition.

I'm seeing a tsunamy James, and it's like the competion is looking at that huge wave with the open mouth waiting to be hitted...


oh and a little morning anecdote: I had my coffee with an established photographer here, from the old school, starting to do motion like a lot. Very experienced and not a brand nor gear addict. I talked to him about this 36MP Nikon at 3000 euros, he would say: mm mm. Then he said: the only thing I'd buy now is a Red camera. The real thrill of now is Red.
I'm sure he'll get his Epic very soon.

I'm not at all Red hypnotyzed- But I just really think that they got it damn right, at the right time.