Adobe + Hasselblad Cooperation

[John R Smith]

Well . . .

Now that David has kindly sent me a link to the original pdf I can at last see for myself what all the fuss has been about. Despite being a Hasselblad fanatic to the core (and owning an unhealthy amount of their gear)  I have to say that I agree with Jeff, and I do not think that he is making a fuss about nothing.

The pdf has all the signs of being a hasty draft, rushed out without any proper review or editing. There are grammatical errors all over it, which is very unusal for Hasselblad documentation. The reference to Lightroom is not properly formatted as Jeff says with the correct trademark. It also has a rather self-congratulatory tone, which as Jeff says is unwarranted because other camera makers have been cooperating closely with Adobe for years. And the paragraph referring to the "competitor" - Phase One - is frankly risible, even in its revised form.

All of this is a great shame, because it obscures the fact that Hasselblad and Adobe have jointly greatly enhanced the Lightroom interface for Hasselblad users, which can only be a good thing.

John

[Schewe]

You had real strong words even then @ Hasselblad. Seems like you look between the lines, whenever anything @ Hasselblad is posted.

I suspect the discussion about Hasselblad on RG's forum related to their removing DNG as a file format option which did piss me off because I had worked with Christian Poulsen of Imacon/Hasselblad and Thomas Knoll from Adobe to get DNG into the camera backs as an option. When Hasselblad decided to close off their system one of the things they did was do a firmware update for the backs that removed the DNG option. Christian claimed DNG was not capable of carrying all the camera data, Thomas didn't agree. Note, at the time I didn't even own a MFDB but I had close ties to Imacon and tried to work with Hasselblad. That didn't work out...

So I now think it's ironic that since Christian is gone there's a new leaf being turned over at Hasselblad. They are to be congratulated for trying to work with Adobe now...but really, it's not at all unusual nor unique.

[Schewe]

Think about it - who has come out looking the worst from all of this - you personally or HB?

HB...

[bcooter]

Everybody makes mistakes...   

This conversation is so 1999.

Does anybody really care who worked with adobe first . . . Hasselblad or Phase One?   

At least in the world of producing images for a living, (not consulting about images) nobody cares about who did what first.

We just care about buying what we need, shooting the gig and getting it done in the best way possible.

Anyone today that even thinks about buying an expensive system, actually any camera system, would probably assume they could process the file in ay processor, just like they do their Canon, Nikon, Pentax, files.

And to top it off, if you work with outside retouchers . . . any good retoucher will 99.99999 percent of the time process out the file in Photoshop's raw convertor, in whatever version they have.

I know I've purchased licenses of C-1 and Lightroom for our retouchers and we always send a processed and worked guide tiff and when they do process out a file they go to photoshop's raw conversion.

They could care less about pincushioning, lens corrections, ca because they're gonna fix it anyway.

Since I buy and use professional cameras, I don't care about pdfs because all the manufacturers including phase have made announcement boners about where, when and what.  In the software-geek-electronic world you can double that ratio.

During annouceakina you can quadruple that number.

I own two Phase backs and they work fine, but I feel that if there is not a negative bias towards hasselblad, there is an obvious pro Phase bias that tones a lot of discussions.

Anyway.

Rather than this type of brand beating brand I'd love to see the makers concentrate on their product and just make it more useable in today's world.

At least Dave who works for Hasselblad comes out and gives information and responds in open court.  Nobody from Phase does that, as they seem to inform behind the wall of dealers and surrogates.

Not that either style is right or wrong, though I'd rather here information direct from a company, because at least there is an obvious agenda to put their products first.

I give Hasselblad credit for talking straight on and if they misquote, or make a mistake, then it will be noticed, though I doubt seriously if anyone really cares about that pdf or any pdf.

Yair of Leaf and the Jim Jannard of RED are out in there also taking the hits and giving direct response.

There is something to be said for that.

IMO

BC

[photo570]

HB...

Bzzzzzzz, wrong.

[David Watson]

This conversation is so 1999.

Does anybody really care who worked with adobe first . . . Hasselblad or Phase One?   

At least in the world of producing images for a living, (not consulting about images) nobody cares about who did what first.

We just care about buying what we need, shooting the gig and getting it done in the best way possible.

Anyone today that even thinks about buying an expensive system, actually any camera system, would probably assume they could process the file in ay processor, just like they do their Canon, Nikon, Pentax, files.

And to top it off, if you work with outside retouchers . . . any good retoucher will 99.99999 percent of the time process out the file in Photoshop's raw convertor, in whatever version they have.

I know I've purchased licenses of C-1 and Lightroom for our retouchers and we always send a processed and worked guide tiff and when they do process out a file they go to photoshop's raw conversion.

They could care less about pincushioning, lens corrections, ca because they're gonna fix it anyway.

Since I buy and use professional cameras, I don't care about pdfs because all the manufacturers including phase have made announcement boners about where, when and what.  In the software-geek-electronic world you can double that ratio.

During annouceakina you can quadruple that number.

I own two Phase backs and they work fine, but I feel that if there is not a negative bias towards hasselblad, there is an obvious pro Phase bias that tones a lot of discussions.

Anyway.

Rather than this type of brand beating brand I'd love to see the makers concentrate on their product and just make it more useable in today's world.

At least Dave who works for Hasselblad comes out and gives information and responds in open court.  Nobody from Phase does that, as they seem to inform behind the wall of dealers and surrogates.

Not that either style is right or wrong, though I'd rather here information direct from a company, because at least there is an obvious agenda to put their products first.

I give Hasselblad credit for talking straight on and if they misquote, or make a mistake, then it will be noticed, though I doubt seriously if anyone really cares about that pdf or any pdf.

Yair of Leaf and the Jim Jannard of RED are out in there also taking the hits and giving direct response.

There is something to be said for that.

IMO

BC

Very well said! 

[David Watson]

Bzzzzzzz, wrong.

+1

[MrSmith]

"announcement boners "

made me chuckle. a pity the medium format world is full of them.

[SeanBK]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thnx Mr. Cooter.

[cunim]

Actually, I would love to see a thread in which people from companies within the industry get their chance to speak, biases and all.  Nothing to do with photographs - just business voyeurism.  Some of us find a candid snapshot of a business more interesting than a model. 

The official corporate line is rarely revealing.  From the troops, in contrast, you get emotion and a much rawer view of what is happening within the company.  Fun to follow and that is why there are rumor mill sites for various industries.  Hard to keep internal secrets when the sales, support or development forces can vent on line. 

Suggestion, start a "photography rumor mill" thread for our general amusement.  Layoffs, bad managers, working conditions, secret projects, negotiations between companies, etc.  Any photography company is fair game - just imagine what the people at Kodak are saying around the water coolers, for example.  Posters could be anonymous and eveyone knows it is pure piffle.

[BrendanStewart]

I laugh my ass off every time someone gets this worked up about something.

Unlike some folks i'm out there shooting every day. I don't have time for this bickering... My own personal take on the matter is that Hasselblad has been kicked around on forums ever since they went 'closed'.

Well they are finally doing some kicking back and suddenly it's like Hasselblad is the devil. Right..... That's my take.  Yes, i'm a very happy Hasselblad owner. The updates and stuff they've done in the last couple of months has been amazing and i'm very happy with their products. So call me biased.

[David Watson]

I laugh my ass off every time someone gets this worked up about something.

Unlike some folks i'm out there shooting every day. I don't have time for this bickering... My own personal take on the matter is that Hasselblad has been kicked around on forums ever since they went 'closed'.

Well they are finally doing some kicking back and suddenly it's like Hasselblad is the devil. Right..... That's my take.  Yes, i'm a very happy Hasselblad owner. The updates and stuff they've done in the last couple of months has been amazing and i'm very happy with their products. So call me biased.

+1 LOL 

[design_freak]

+1 LOL 

unfortunately I have no idea why you are happy. well of course the guys are doing something (a developing), well the company has a good investor. but unfortunately many were destroyed by last year. These small incidents /mistakes  happen too often. is the result of bad management, all the time there is no communication within the organization. since the president did not talk to their employees .... This testifies about something. 3 years ago it was inconceivable. of course I'm biased 

[design_freak]

HB...

you lose time and nerves. They are not worth it. you know your value. you did so much for this industry. better do something useful.

[design_freak]

+1

you are an ordinary servant!!!
SHAME 

[David Watson]

unfortunately I have no idea why you are happy. well of course the guys are doing something (a developing), well the company has a good investor. but unfortunately many were destroyed by last year. These small incidents /mistakes  happen too often. is the result of bad management, all the time there is no communication within the organization. since the president did not talk to their employees .... This testifies about something. 3 years ago it was inconceivable. of course I'm biased  

I think that we are all aware that you are biased and most sensible people will discount your criticism accordingly.  Not so sure that I like your personal comments though and would suggest that you learn some manners.

[design_freak]

I think that we are all aware that you are biased not to actually prejudiced and most sensible people will discount your criticism accordingly.  Not so sure that I like your personal comments though and would suggest that you learn some manners.

This pdf is an example of good manners

[michael]

Rudeness and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Please everyone, return to civil discourse.

Michael

[fredjeang]

snip...

And to top it off, if you work with outside retouchers . . . any good retoucher will 99.99999 percent of the time process out the file in Photoshop's raw convertor, in whatever version they have.

I know I've purchased licenses of C-1 and Lightroom for our retouchers and we always send a processed and worked guide tiff and when they do process out a file they go to photoshop's raw conversion.

They could care less about pincushioning, lens corrections, ca because they're gonna fix it anyway.

Since I buy and use professional cameras, I don't care about pdfs because all the manufacturers including phase have made announcement boners about where, when and what.  In the software-geek-electronic world you can double that ratio.

During annouceakina you can quadruple that number.

Exactly.


Honestly guys, do you really care/see/apreciate "magic properties" in any of those, with or without collaboration? I don't get it. We will be in PS with 50 layers for whatever and therefore I'm missing a point here.

Why this topic is getting hot and sensitive?

[Rob C]

Why this topic is getting hot and sensitive?

It's winter, Fred, gotta keep warmed up or risk a chill! Unfortunately, nothing very sensitive anywhere around these parts of northern Mallorca...

;-)

Rob C