Stretcher Bars

[KenBabcock]

We have lots of discussions here about printers, ink, paper, canvas and coatings but hardly talk about stretcher bars.

So....  what do you use?  Do you make your own or buy them?  What is your cost?  What thicknesses do you use?

Currently I buy mine from my local art store, Wyndham Art Supplies in Guelph.  I use 3/4" and 1 1/2" bars.  Although I'm sure they cost more than if I were to make my own, it gives me the flexibility to be able to re-tighten canvases in the future if needed since these bars are keyed.  I've compared their prices to others across Ontario and their prices come out on top.

When clients flip the canvases around and see that I'm using professional bars they're usually impressed.  I've received many compliments and heard stories from purchasing canvases elsewhere and seeing cheap stock stapled together.  Although I see many companies are now covering the back of their canvases with Tyvek to "protect from dust".  I say it's more like covering up shoddy bars so customers can't see how their bars really look.  I prefer to leave my canvas backs open.

[dgberg]

I use 1 1/2" and 2" deep bars and in the past purchased pine in uncut lengths from Decor Moulding.
I wanted a true 1 1/2" and 2" bar so I ordered several thousand feet in poplar from my local millwork company.
We cut to length with a dual CTD mitre saw and staple with an ITW AMP under pinner. Most are for my customers but recently have started selling cut but not assembled bars. The shipping is crazy expensive when you assemble and ship these large pano sizes I am selling. Customers just spot glue and staple the corners on both sides and done. Braces are included for the center of the larger frames.
Do not want to use the forum as a selling platform so please contact me offline with further questions.

[RFPhotography]

If the ones you're getting from Wyndham are the same as what's on their website, then they're the same basic thing everyone sells. 

I've done and do both.  Commercial stretchers are only available in even sizes.  A lot of the stuff I stretch is custom so I can either cut commercial bars down or make my own.  Either way the mortise and tenon of the corners is gone so gluing is necessary.  If I make my own, I use quality clear pine.  I've used hardwood (poplar) but it's much more expensive and I haven't found a benefit yet. 

[KenBabcock]

Dan, are you selling your large pano prints and shipping the canvas and bars to your clients for them to assemble and stretch?  That's not a bad idea.  Shipping from Canada to the US is unbelievably expensive.   Not that I would recommend the client attempt to stretch, but if they take everything to an art store or local framing shop and have someone do it for them.... hmm... now you have me thinking!

Bob, yes those are the exact bars I'm using directly from Wyndham Art Supplies.  They're not bad prices considering they're local and saves me time making my own.  I also don't have to worry about clients complaining of saggy canvas.  If it happens (very rarely) I can simply instruct them to tap the wedges and re-tighten the canvas.  Handy if the client doesn't live near me.

[framah]

Just a little note about a comment the OP said about the backing put on canvases.

It's really not to cover up the workmanship.
The reason is very legitimate  in that dust and bugs and such can and do eventually settle in between the canvas and the bar and besides bulging out the canvas, it also promotes rotting of the canvas.
The more appropriate thing to do is now close it up with coroplast or foam core or even a rag mat board. The added benefit is to keep someone from pushing something into the back of the canvas and causing a bulge or even a tear.

Keeping the back open has nothing to do with "helping the canvas to breathe" as some painters insist.. for the simple reason that the canvas isn't alive! Any  off gassing of the paint happens from the front.
As almost every piece that comes in here to be stretched is an odd size, I have to make my own bars and I glue and v nail them.  Really not a problem.

Poplar or Bass wood is preferred over pine due to the finer grain making it less likely to warp or split.

[KenBabcock]

I understand why some are now putting a backing on the canvas.  I also know about canvas breathing etc... I've been a traditional oil painting artist for over 25 years so I know a bit about canvas

I was actually referring to a few specific websites and companies putting a backing on to cover up shoddy workmanship.  I've seen their terrible work first hand and know they now use a backing to cover their horrible bars and horrible canvas wrapping.  I wasn't insinuating everyone puts a backing on to cover their mess, but many now are.

Canvas has survived hundreds of years without a backing.  Plus I like to show clients I don't use garbage material (like MDF) for bars.

[dgberg]

Dan, are you selling your large pano prints and shipping the canvas and bars to your clients for them to assemble and stretch?  That's not a bad idea.  Shipping from Canada to the US is unbelievably expensive.   Not that I would recommend the client attempt to stretch, but if they take everything to an art store or local framing shop and have someone do it for them.... hmm... now you have me thinking!

Bob, yes those are the exact bars I'm using directly from Wyndham Art Supplies.  They're not bad prices considering they're local and saves me time making my own.  I also don't have to worry about clients complaining of saggy canvas.  If it happens (very rarely) I can simply instruct them to tap the wedges and re-tighten the canvas.  Handy if the client doesn't live near me.

Ken,
I am printing several landscape photographers pano images on canvas. Mostly larger sizes where we use the 2" bars. I print,varnish and mail in a tube.
I measure the print,cut the bars to size and ship unassembled. The customer assembles the stretchers themselves and stretches the canvas.
The print shipping is less then $10.00. The bars are pretty heavy and is $20.00+

Bob,
I always liked the pine when I was using my staple gun.
My AMP under pinner never liked the pine and the joints were never pulled tightly together.
The staples available for this machine are a hardwood cut.
They pull the hardwood poplar together so much better.
The second reason was the sizing of the bars. We made the new ones a full 1 1/2" not 1 3/8" like the pine.

[KenBabcock]

Dan,

Haven't your clients had problems with canvas cracking when folding the corners and stretching themselves many days after the print was coated?

I find if I don't stretch within 24 hours or so after coating and I stretch a few days later I get cracking.  I'm using Eco Print Shield.  I thought about doing what you're doing in the past but decided against it because I knew the corners would crack when someone else attempted to fold a week after I printed.

You're so lucky with the cheap shipping.  To send a small 16" long tube here from Canada to the US is well over $20 and the tube contains just the canvas print!!  We get charged loads of service fees, fuel fee, even a "tube fee" for using a shipping tube!!  Yes, on top of purchasing the tube itself we then pay extra because the tube is round.

[John Nollendorfs]

I've found that the 3/4" stretchers can be found reasonably priced at Michaels or Hobby Lobby, but they don't seem to stock 1" increments, and often are out of stock of some sizes. In the end, mail ordering seems the best alternative if you can predict the sizes you will need.

Buying 8ft. lengths involves paying high shipping charges, or buying large quantities.

I've found that brick moulding can be bought from Home Depot for around $1 per foot and  is about 2"x 1.25". It is finger jointed, and painted with white primer. One thing I do is round off the sharp corners where the canvas will be stretched around.

Buying 1x2 lumber is not a good alternative unless you are willing modify to lift the canvas from the flat of stretchers.

Not really a lot of alternatives unless you stretch a lot of canvas'!

[framah]

You could also try asking a framer if they would be willing to buy length for you.

If I buy length of stretcher bar at say .60 a foot I might sell it in length for  $1.50 plus the shipping cost making a quick $90 for running it thru the shop and to cover the time to order it and receive it.

Never hurts to ask. You might get a yes.

[iCanvas]

We buy our stretcher bars pre made from South Frames in Chula Vista, CA. They are the 1/2" x 2". They are made of pine. The following prices I pay for pre made:

8 x 10.... $.95
12 x 16 .... $1.25
16 x 20 .... $2.00
12 x 24 ..... $2.00
20 x 24 ..... $2.25
24 x 36 ..... $2.95
30 x 40 (with middle bar) ..... $5.00
36 x 48 (with middle bar) ..... $6.00

I order my frames from them. I order three times a year and have three pallets of frame and stretcher bars shipped each time so the freight expense is not so great.

The are a descent quality and a very good price. They can put together any size for you.

If you call tell them that Gary from Pittsburgh recommended them. They will give you the prices above, hopefully.

Ask for Minerva,

That's my input on stretcher bars,

Gary

[mstevensphoto]

so am I the only one using the IG Wrappe bars (sold under different names from Breathing Color, Hannemule and others)? They're a little more expensive per foot, but they're a snap to use. I probably do 6-20 canvases in any given month so it's kinda nice not to have a larger stock on hand. I'm very curious about buying uncut lengths and then adapting the IG method - is anyone doing this with success? I love the corners it makes and can never seem to get the hospital corners on a traditional stretcher to be as flat as I'd like.
Mark

[davidh202]

We buy our stretcher bars pre made from South Frames in Chula Vista, CA. They are the 1/2" x 2". They are made of pine.  I order my frames from them. I order three times a year and have three pallets of frame and stretcher bars shipped each time so the freight expense is not so great

I think the discussion here is more related to the deep strecthers for canvas wraps, not the thin ones 1/2-3/4 " deep.

[KenBabcock]

Actually most of what I stretch is on 3/4" bars.  I rarely have clients wanting 1 3/4".  (my original post I said I use 3/4" and 1 1/2".... that should have been 1 3/4" not 1 1/2").  But anyway, for some reason most folks here prefer 3/4".

[NickCroken]

I use what I believe is the older style bars.  I have a friend who does print that uses the sticky ones that you just fold the canvas onto but am not solid on them.  I stretch and staple the canvas around these bars.  http://www.artistsupplies.com/store/index.php/cPath/83_12_249?osCsid=3f97eb9a28a4861c8fbce453f5d4a397  This is a local shop, my price is 50% of what you see on the website.

[Rob Reiter]

I use the IG Wrappe bars sold by Breathing Color. I don't generally print standard size canvasses, so I chop the bars as needed and they work fine. Largest I've done are 40"x54" (available up to 60".) It seems to be a good system, producing a ready-to-hang piece.

[RFPhotography]

Ken, it's odd that you're having cracking issues.  I use Eco as well and have stretched pieces several days after coating with no problems.  And no cracking over the passage of time after stretching either. 

Dan, that's the nice thing about making your own is being able to do custom cuts.  I use the 3/4" probably 95% of the time because they're going into frames.  Ken, I'd suspect that's probably why your customers want the 3/4" as well. 

[KenBabcock]

Bob,

Yes, I suspect too that most of my canvases end up in frames so that's probably why I mainly stretch around 3/4" bars. 

I should say that the cracking issues when folding corners only happens on Epson Premium canvas.  Now that I can no longer obtain the Premium line locally I might not have that issue.... I haven't tried stretching several days after coating with Eco Print Shield on anything other than Epson Premium.

A while back when I tried the Black Diamond Eclipse coating I didn't have that problem.

I'm going to try on other canvas brands I now have and see if I get cracking after a few days.  If all is well then I think Dan is on to something I'd probably try too.  Haven't been able to in the past because of the cracking.

[KenBabcock]

We buy our stretcher bars pre made from South Frames in Chula Vista, CA. They are the 1/2" x 2". They are made of pine. The following prices I pay for pre made:

8 x 10.... $.95
12 x 16 .... $1.25
16 x 20 .... $2.00
12 x 24 ..... $2.00
20 x 24 ..... $2.25
24 x 36 ..... $2.95
30 x 40 (with middle bar) ..... $5.00
36 x 48 (with middle bar) ..... $6.00

I order my frames from them. I order three times a year and have three pallets of frame and stretcher bars shipped each time so the freight expense is not so great.

The are a descent quality and a very good price. They can put together any size for you.

If you call tell them that Gary from Pittsburgh recommended them. They will give you the prices above, hopefully.

Ask for Minerva,

That's my input on stretcher bars,

Gary

Gary, which store location are you ordering from?  I may contact them about shipping prices if I can get the same deal as you.

[RFPhotography]

See, now that's even odder a lot of what I print is on Epson PCM.  I haven't used the Satin.