Hahn/Harman Gloss Baryta Rolls & Curl

[Light Seeker]

I'm evaluating Hahnemuhle / Harman Gloss Baryta and Gloss Baryta Warmtone. The DMax and Chroma capabilities are quite amazing so I will likely move forward with it.

What I'm wondering about is how rolls are to work with. The paper seems more prone to curling issues than other papers. It's also an alpha-cellulose paper which I have found more difficult to de-curl, in part because the d-roller will "break" the paper.

Should I stick to sheets, or have you been successful working with rolls?

Thanks.

Terry.

[deanwork]

All of the alpha cellulose papers curl more than the rag fiber gloss or rc satin media in my experience. However, I use the Harmon only in rolls and I've found that if I put the prints under weight right out of the printer they flatten just fine. It seems to flatten much better for me than the Canson Baryta or the Innova, Moab, etc. Also in my experience the newer Harmon is more durable. I've seen the Canson and Ilford stuff scratch in the white paper base really easy and I"m not seeing that with the Harmon. Finally the gloss differential and bronzing is non-existent on the Harmon with my Canon,  even with black and white with lots of ink laid down next to pure white paper base, and much better on the Hp than any other. I assume there is a similar result with recent Epson inks.

[Robcat]

...I've found that if I put the prints under weight right out of the printer they flatten just fine. It seems to flatten much better for me than the Canson Baryta or the Innova, Moab, etc. Also in my experience the newer Harmon is more durable. I've seen the Canson and Ilford stuff scratch in the white paper base really easy and I"m not seeing that with the Harmon...

I wish I'd had this success with my 8300. I love the Hahn/Harman look but have had the devil's own time with 24" rolls. They are so stiff and tightly curled I get head strikes even with max vaccum and increased head height. I gave up feeding from the rolls and ended up cutting 36" pieces off the roll (which is a challenge in itself---like wrestling an anaconda) and flattening them with weights like Dean describes but before printing. In the unrolling and flattening process I bugger up maybe 1 in 4 sheets because they get kinks really really easily. Once I have a reasonably flat one, it feed and prints fine and looks great.

I admit I don't have a D-roller, which I've read here that some folks use for pre-flattening from the rolls before feeding. I did try a smooth cardboard tube and the curled-up edge that juts up from where you first start rolling causes just enough bending each time the paper comes around to that point that the paper kinks enough to be unusable. I don't know what the D-roller would do to eliminate that.

With 17" I don't bother with rolls, I just get the 17 x 25" paper sheets. That's gorgeous and works fine.

[Light Seeker]

I wonder if there's a significant humidity difference between your respective environments?

I have a D-roller and I have mixed feelings about it. It tends not to work well with alpha-cellulose papers due to the stiffness, but I knew that was the case when I bought it. However, even with cotton rag media there are issues. I often get "waves" in the paper where you are rolling over the initial edge of the paper. Rolling it at an angle helps. What I've found with Platine is that it will flatten on it's own if I leave it sit for a day or two, so I do that to avoid potential D-roller artifacts. All of this doesn't really matter if you dry mount, but it might if you hand your customer a print.

Terry.

[deanwork]

I made my own deroller years ago by using a 3" pvc pipe, a steel pipe inside of it, and an acetate sheet. I got mixed results over the years, often destroying expensive prints at very bad times.

Recently I discovered something that really works. I had this thick heavyish hard foam cardboard tube laying around from something. It is 3/4" thick and 4" in diameter and 44" long. I used a large 44x35" reject print on the Canon Heavyweight Satin paper to roll around the tube once and then feed in the curled print, then I roll the old rc print around the curled print, lean the wrapped up tube against my paper trimmer, put a book against it to keep from unrolling and let it sit there for 10 minutes. It works fantastic. I"ve used it on everything, even small fiber gloss prints that are the most difficult. I just stumbled into this in the heat of getting a job out. It is the only thing that has every worked really well for me.

By the way the longer a roll of media has been sitting on the shelf rolled up like that the more difficult it is going to be to deroll or even use at all. I've seen that a lot around here with papers I've had on the shelf for a year or more. Sometimes they become unusable. I've had a lot of trouble with Innova fiber gloss papers in that regard and even alpha cell matte papers if they are thick enough. Many I've just had to through away ( before I had a deroller situation that worked).

john

[alain]

I made my own deroller years ago by using a 3" pvc pipe, a steel pipe inside of it, and an acetate sheet. I got mixed results over the years, often destroying expensive prints at very bad times.

Recently I discovered something that really works. I had this thick heavyish hard foam cardboard tube laying around from something. It is 3/4" thick and 4" in diameter and 44" long. I used a large 44x35" reject print on the Canon Heavyweight Satin paper to roll around the tube once and then feed in the curled print, then I roll the old rc print around the curled print, lean the wrapped up tube against my paper trimmer, put a book against it to keep from unrolling and let it sit there for 10 minutes. It works fantastic. I"ve used it on everything, even small fiber gloss prints that are the most difficult. I just stumbled into this in the heat of getting a job out. It is the only thing that has every worked really well for me.

By the way the longer a roll of media has been sitting on the shelf rolled up like that the more difficult it is going to be to deroll or even use at all. I've seen that a lot around here with papers I've had on the shelf for a year or more. Sometimes they become unusable. I've had a lot of trouble with Innova fiber gloss papers in that regard and even alpha cell matte papers if they are thick enough. Many I've just had to through away ( before I had a deroller situation that worked).

john

Hi can you give a little more info about the "thick heavyish hard foam cardboard tube"?  I know a cardboard tube, but the combination with hard foam isn't clear to me.

Alain