Testing the new eye 1 dispay pro

[Mr_S]

Hi,
 
So I've just been putting the new Eye 1 display pro through its paces on my wide gamut Dell U2711 and well, I don't really know if it's working correctly.
 
I've spent all day testing and the results are odd...Some of this is monitor specific so I've tried to clarify what the settings mean for this monitor..
 
 
If I use the `standard` (no rgb controls) preset and calibrate using the ADC feature, the profile gets created but the monitor then magically sets itself to `user custom color` (sometimes it stays on standard though?!)
If I use the `user custom color` preset and calibrate using the ADC feature, the profile gets created but the monitor then magically sets itself to `standard.
 
In both cases the rgb settings have been adjusted (looking at the rgb sliders via `custom color` settng).
So whats going on?
 
If I turn off ADC and manually set the brightness and contrast, the preset stays as it was before the calibration, with no changes to the monitor rgb sliders, just the graphics card.
 
So I'm assuming if the monitor talks to the eye 1 through ADC it's using the monitor lut, so why is the graphics card LUT getting changed too?
 
Also, the manual brightness/contrast seems very flaky, sometimes you can hit the desired levels it wants, and other times not.
 
I'm very confused..can you shed any light on this?

[Damo77]

So I'm assuming if the monitor talks to the eye 1 through ADC it's using the monitor lut, so why is the graphics card LUT getting changed too?

I want to know this too.

[shewhorn]

I've found X-Rite's implementation of DDC (which they for some reason have decided to call ADC) to be extremely buggy. I would not trust it at this point in time. They aren't even doing very very VERY basic tests to ascertain whether or not they are successfully communicating with a monitor. As a result what happens is that they will identify a monitor as being DDC compliant, when in fact it is not. They will then attempt to send commands to the monitor and when the monitor doesn't respond properly, they will attempt to make further corrections in the video LUT. It's just the wrong way to do things and for whatever reason, they didn't put much thought into that part of the software. It would be easy enough to write code to identify whether or not the commands sent to the monitor are actually resulting in a measurable change and when none is detected it ought to be assumed that DDC/ci communications has failed. This is especially critical with DDC/ci because as far as "standards" go, it's pretty loose and many manufacturers do their own thing. Anyhow, after detecting that there have not been any changes based upon commands sent to the monitor the software should notify you of this and prompt you to manually adjust the RGB gains or luminance but they do not. Instead they take it upon themselves to make those changes in the video LUT resulting in a very poor profile.

I don't know if that's specifically what's going on with your particular monitor but I have observed this behavior using i1Profiler with other monitors. The HP LP3065 for example will identify itself as DDC/ci compliant but the implementation doesn't actually work. Color Eyes Display Pro initially detects it as a DDC/ci monitor but the folks at Integrated Color actually do the right thing and perform tests to verify whether or not it actually works and when those tests fail, it bars you from operating in that mode (and that's the way it should be).

Cheers, Joe

[Mr_S]

I've found X-Rite's implementation of DDC (which they for some reason have decided to call ADC) to be extremely buggy. I would not trust it at this point in time. They aren't even doing very very VERY basic tests to ascertain whether or not they are successfully communicating with a monitor. As a result what happens is that they will identify a monitor as being DDC compliant, when in fact it is not. They will then attempt to send commands to the monitor and when the monitor doesn't respond properly, they will attempt to make further corrections in the video LUT. It's just the wrong way to do things and for whatever reason, they didn't put much thought into that part of the software. It would be easy enough to write code to identify whether or not the commands sent to the monitor are actually resulting in a measurable change and when none is detected it ought to be assumed that DDC/ci communications has failed. This is especially critical with DDC/ci because as far as "standards" go, it's pretty loose and many manufacturers do their own thing. Anyhow, after detecting that there have not been any changes based upon commands sent to the monitor the software should notify you of this and prompt you to manually adjust the RGB gains or luminance but they do not. Instead they take it upon themselves to make those changes in the video LUT resulting in a very poor profile.

I don't know if that's specifically what's going on with your particular monitor but I have observed this behavior using i1Profiler with other monitors. The HP LP3065 for example will identify itself as DDC/ci compliant but the implementation doesn't actually work. Color Eyes Display Pro initially detects it as a DDC/ci monitor but the folks at Integrated Color actually do the right thing and perform tests to verify whether or not it actually works and when those tests fail, it bars you from operating in that mode (and that's the way it should be).

Cheers, Joe

Thanks Joe,

I kind of thought I'd leave well alone regarding the ADC and adjust the contrast and brightness myself - it still goes ahead and changes the graphics card settings - just as well as there isn't any manual RGB settings in the profiler software..bit of a joke really   Think I'm going to try and get my money back under DSR...

cheers...

[eronald]

What many of us do is use Xrite instruments and third party software.

Edmund

[Mr_S]

Edmund - I had a quick look today at BasICColor and ColorEyes Display Pro on their respective sites but didn't have time to really take anything in.   Am I right in thinking that as I have an X-rite unit, it's hardware locked to X-rite software?  If this isn't the case, can you recomend any 3rd party software?

[shewhorn]

What many of us do is use Xrite instruments and third party software.

Edmund

That's not an option with the i1 Display Pro. It will only work with the software that it came with. Even if Integrated Color or BasICColor decided to support the i1Display Pro hardware, the colorimeter you received with your X-Rite i1Display Pro package would not work because X-Rite is requiring that you buy a separate unit which is licensed to work with 3rd party software. As a result, Integrated Color has stated that they have no plans to support the i1Display Pro Hardware unless X-Rite changes this policy.

Cheers, Joe

September 9th, 2011 - The info I posted above is incorrect. Eizo, NEC, and BasICColor have announced support for the retail version of the i1Display Pro (this is good)

[eronald]

Edmund - I had a quick look today at BasICColor and ColorEyes Display Pro on their respective sites but didn't have time to really take anything in.   Am I right in thinking that as I have an X-rite unit, it's hardware locked to X-rite software?  If this isn't the case, can you recomend any 3rd party software?

Ask Basiccolor and ColorEyes whether they got an SDK for the new stuff yet, and for which versions. Xrite has a habit of trying to lock things down a bit too hard initially, and then being more relaxed as time goes by. I see those third party companies are escape valves, they provide software for cases where bundled one-size-fits-all is not appropriate,  and are therefore more of an asset than a threat to the hardware vendors.

Edmund

Edmund

[Mr_S]

Thanks, I've just mailed both companies to see what the lay of the land is regarding 3rd party support.

Along my travels, I came across Chromapure:
http://www.chromapure.com/products.asp

It seems they are offering software/hardware bundles with the new Display Pro now...

[Mr_S]

Update on 3rd Party support:

Bad news I'm afraid. Coloreyes said they were confused over X-rites decision to lock the software, and suggested their hardware bundle of Spyder 3/Coloreyes.  You can buy the software separately of course for other colorimeters, but not the Eye 1 display pro..

BasICColor came back and said version 5 of basICColor will support the Eye 1 display pro from the end of September 2011, and also said they were not aware of any limitations regarding retail/3rd party support.  


Oh dear - sounds like a bit of a mess...Come on X-rite!

[eronald]

I think the fact that Basiccolor is coming out with software for the new device is good news!

Basiccolor has a fully functional demo, so when it comes out you'll be able to profile your screen for free with boutique software

Xrite cannot really make up their mind whether they are a hardware or software company.



Edmund

Update on 3rd Party support:

Bad news I'm afraid. Coloreyes said they were confused over X-rites decision to lock the software, and suggested their hardware bundle of Spyder 3/Coloreyes.  You can buy the software separately of course for other colorimeters, but not the Eye 1 display pro..

BasICColor came back and said version 5 of basICColor will support the Eye 1 display pro from the end of September 2011, and also said they were not aware of any limitations regarding retail/3rd party support.  


Oh dear - sounds like a bit of a mess...Come on X-rite!

[Mr_S]

It is good news that BasICColor is coming out for the display pro - It's just sounds like their not in the know about the locked hardware for some reason, unless they plan to release a OEM hardware/software bundles, but he didn't mention that.

Sorry If I'm being dense, but Why would BasICColor be free when it's released?

[eronald]

It is good news that BasICColor is coming out for the display pro - It's just sounds like their not in the know about the locked hardware for some reason, unless they plan to release a OEM hardware/software bundles, but he didn't mention that.

Sorry If I'm being dense, but Why would BasICColor be free when it's released?

Maybe ColorEyes say the hardware is locked just because *they* don't have the SDK. Yet.

BasicColor have this nice licensing system where you download their software and you get a few weeks to use it, eg. to make profiles, and by then you should have acquired and paid for a license. It's similar to the Photoshop system. The profiles you make with the demos are good, and all yours, just like images edited with a trial version of Photoshop.

Edmund

[shewhorn]

Maybe ColorEyes say the hardware is locked just because *they* don't have the SDK. Yet.

No, the SDK is available to them if they want it. I asked them directly about support for the i1 Display Pro hardware and they were pretty clear and explicit in their response which you can read here:

http://www.integrated-color.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1693

I sent an email to BasICColor to get clarification on exactly what their support for the i1 Display Pro will entail.

Cheers, Joe

[eronald]

No, the SDK is available to them if they want it. I asked them directly about support for the i1 Display Pro hardware and they were pretty clear and explicit in their response which you can read here:

http://www.integrated-color.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1693

I sent an email to BasICColor to get clarification on exactly what their support for the i1 Display Pro will entail.

Cheers, Joe

registration on that board is ... slow.
copy-paste here?

Edmund

[K.C.]

Xrite cannot really make up their mind whether they are a hardware or software company.

I don't think there is any indecision at Xrite. They're clearly in the hardware business, developing the minimum in software to support the hardware.

That said, for all the faults you want to find with the new i1Display Pro, it's working very well for me with the 1.1.1 update.

[shewhorn]

BasICColor's response (which is good news):

basICColor display 5 will support the i1 Display Pros – yes, plural!
We have purchased a license for supporting OEM and original X-Rite instruments.
Some OEMs may choose to have their instruments locked down for use with  their own software only, though. Not so basICColor – the OEM instrument we are going to sell will not be restricted other than being regarded as OEM products.
In other words, we´ll support the X-Rite instruments and all the OEM instruments which are not locked down by the respective OEM.

Cheers, Joe

[eronald]

I don't think there is any indecision at Xrite. They're clearly in the hardware business, developing the minimum in software to support the hardware.

That said, for all the faults you want to find with the new i1Display Pro, it's working very well for me with the 1.1.1 update.

Please do not make me say the product has faults. I think it is well suited to the graphics arts market. I am waiting to see what photo users say about it.
ColorEyes and Basiccolor sell boutique, sophisticated tools for the color geek market.
I think there is a market for Walmart and for specialty shops.

Edmund

[digitaldog]

I am waiting to see what photo users say about it.
ColorEyes and Basiccolor sell boutique, sophisticated tools for the color geek market.

So the photo market is the color geek market?

The product has been out for both the graphic arts and photo market the same amount of time. So what are you waiting to hear from the photo market you haven’t heard this far?

[eronald]

So the photo market is the color geek market?

The product has been out for both the graphic arts and photo market the same amount of time. So what are you waiting to hear from the photo market you haven’t heard this far?

Andrew,
 I've just had half a bottle of some very good 2005 St.Estéphe (Chateau Meyney).

 D'you know the story about the Jesuit and the Dominican? They've both had business in Vatican City, and now they're re walking across the plaza in front of St Peter's Basilica, stepping out from the Bernini colonnade, and the Dominican asks the Jesuit:

- Father, there is something I would like to know about your order.
- What is it my son?
- Do you always answer a question with a question?
- Where did you hear such a thing, my son?

Edmund