Ventizz to acquire Hasselblad

[design_freak]

If not better.  

While I appreciate Mr. Freaks armchair analysis, I can assure you the H4D line is as competitive as it was before any announcements.

Thanks Well-paid job I would not refuse.

[design_freak]

My question wasn't really whether there will be new models released soon or prices dropped but rather whether it's worth waiting to see if the current dealership, warranty, etc structure will remain. I wouldn't want to invest in something which might have the carpet yanked out from underneath it in a years time whether it be in a change of corporate structure or a new system with the old one unsupported after time or whatever. I'm thinking it might be worth waiting a bit if you require not just a camera but also the ability to buy into a brands philosophy.

Nobody knows. I do not know, I know that everything is possible. In particular, the announced expansion into new markets. Alleged that the mass market products. They can change the sales model: http://www.hasselbladusastore.com/ Who knows. Wait and see.

[DeeJay]

It's statements like this that lead me to believe that somebody (Phase One Dealer?) is feeding you bum information.  Resetting a battery has no adverse affect on the battery, body, anything(!) even repeated on an hourly basis!

Any lithium battery can be prone to deliver the wrong charge information, which is why nearly every device in the land has the ability to reset them.  (This includes your MacBook Pro!)

I would agree that as H2's need to be replaced, some Phase One users would then naturally buy a 645DF.  Equally there are plenty of users who junked the Phase One back as they had a lot of investment in H lenses and wanted to keep using them and the superior camera body.

Thanks re Ventizz!

David

Actually, no, that's my growingly frustrating experience with H2's. It just ends up locking up. Not syncing with the flash, not firing, stops communicating with the backs. It happens 1-4 times during a shoot. The remedy is to take the battery out, the lens off, the back off, put it all back on and hope for the best.

I use quite alot of different assistants and they all know what to do when it happens so it's common place and a known issue.

It is otherwise a good system and I've kept using it despite of the frustration (which at important times in the shoot can be really annoying). My only other gripe is the lenses could be more compact and it could be less plasticky feeling. To be honest I wish you would create some new lenses for the V Bodies.

Am I complaining? respectfully, yup.

[design_freak]

Actually, no, that's my growingly frustrating experience with H2's. It just ends up locking up. Not syncing with the flash, not firing, stops communicating with the backs. It happens 1-4 times during a shoot. The remedy is to take the battery out, the lens off, the back off, put it all back on and hope for the best.

I use quite alot of different assistants and they all know what to do when it happens so it's common place and a known issue.

It is otherwise a good system and I've kept using it despite of the frustration (which at important times in the shoot can be really annoying). My only other gripe is the lenses could be more compact and it could be less plasticky feeling. To be honest I wish you would create some new lenses for the V Bodies.

Am I complaining? respectfully, yup.

Many would buy these lenses ...

[fredjeang]

...However I don't think either Kodak or Dalsa will be investing in true Liveview or video capable CMOS MF sensor unless this is technology they can recycle from another platform. So w're probably going to be looking at more of the same in the near future.

Or maybe RED will be the last billionaire standing

Edmund

My thoughts exactly.

[eronald]

I'm sure the dealers are shaking in their boots. I'm sure Hassy could do without the dealers if they wanted to. In the end the question is whether the market is price-sensitive or not, ie. whether lowering prices by 30% would increase sales. My guess is that working photographers are VERY sensitive to price, but the very rich amateurs are not. Normal hobby photographers are price sensitive as the large used-camera market demonstrates.

Edmund

My question wasn't really whether there will be new models released soon or prices dropped but rather whether it's worth waiting to see if the current dealership, warranty, etc structure will remain. I wouldn't want to invest in something which might have the carpet yanked out from underneath it in a years time whether it be in a change of corporate structure or a new system with the old one unsupported after time or whatever. I'm thinking it might be worth waiting a bit if you require not just a camera but also the ability to buy into a brands philosophy.

[fredjeang]

In a period of crisis, the only marquet that grows is the luxury one. (and the Lidl supermarkets) As always.

As you pointed, we will see more of the same saga in the next years for sure. Nothing groundbreaking, none of the expected features but breaking the 100MP barrier. But we might see the marketing deps working hard in puting those brands names in the luxury hobbyists more than ever. Those hobbyists will be the one who will get the workshops. New workshops in Abu Dabi, in Monaco and Cancun and it will keep people jobs.

You'll see a lot of imagination in that terrain yes, technologically very little but in that terrain we will soon have new Ferrari's style releases. A Louis Vuitton is still missing.

[eronald]

Fred,

 You and I we can get a couple of models, and teach a workshop. In the end the success of the workshop depends on the models

 Actually, I'm thinking of taking a workshop myself (not fashion) but maybe I should just come for a week and assist in Spain

Edmund

In a period of crisis, the only marquet that grows is the luxury one. (and the Lidl supermarkets) As always.

As you pointed, we will see more of the same saga in the next years for sure. Nothing groundbreaking, none of the expected features but breaking the 100MP barrier. But we might see the marketing deps working hard in puting those brands names in the luxury hobbyists more than ever. Those hobbyists will be the one who will get the workshops. New workshops in Abu Dabi, in Monaco and Cancun and it will keep people jobs.

You'll see a lot of imagination in that terrain yes, technologically very little but in that terrain we will soon have new Ferrari's style releases. A Louis Vuitton is still missing.

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve

No idea on sales but it is an indisputable fact that, as I said, the global installed user base of Hasselblad systems far exceeds those of Phamiya.  Please do not dissimulate regarding the so called openness of your system.  If you did have an open system then Capture One (a chargeable and very nice software package) would recognise hasselblad raw files just for a starter.

David, if you are referring to the digital back portion of the system, it is not a fact, it is a disputed claim on your part, based on ....? If you only mean the camera system, there may be more installed Hasselblad cameras (but do you mean H series? V series? All Hasselblad cameras combined?), but then again, are you also counting all Mamiya/Phase cameras? Mamiya RZ? Mamiya RB?

Either way, I took your meaning to be installed Hasselblad H systems, like an H4D (or any system with a Hasselblad/Imacon back on it), compared to any system with a Phase One digital back. In this case, there is no question that there are far more installed users for Phase One. I think 2009/2010 sales may have been close. However, in 2011, I am pretty confident sales are in favor of Phase One, based on record sales for Phase One (and also for us).

I don't know what you mean about your open system comment. You brought up that Phase One is not open because a Hasselblad closed back will not fit on Phase One's open platform camera. And this is the fault of Phase One? Excuse me?

And, just for the record, I haven't ever made a really big deal about "openness", "freedom of choice", "closed systems", etc. Phase One uses that to its marketing advantage in reaction to Hasselblad becoming a proprietary system. No reason for them not to, and there certainly are valid points to it. However, Phase One wasn't really saying much about open systems until Hasselblad made this decision. So it has never really been presented as a feature, but rather, as a competitive response. Even when I sold Hasselblad the most I said about the situation was that it was "unfortunate" that Hasselbld chose this path, however they felt this was the best direction for them. I've never really disputed whether that was the most appropriate or optimal path forward for them.

Even though I sell Phase One products, I have taken the position of not having a dog in the "open vs closed" fight. It is what it is. Phase One remains on the path of offering digital backs for any camera that will accept them and also offering a camera that will accept any digital back on the market made for it. That is ..... pretty open. Hasselblad has taken a proprietary (closed, to some...) path and does not create cameras or digital backs that work on any other system than it's own (without 3rd party adapters, etc). That is the way it is - make your choice.

But I agree (and have in the past) that you could make a lot of open vs closed arguments and Capture One not being open to Hasselblad files could indeed be one of them. Sometimes closed vs open comes down to - is the party that does not have access willing to agree to the terms of the party that does? Or was the decision to not offer that access part of the strategy from the start? These questions often remain unanswered. The biggest issue was the initial decision, which pissed off many existing Hasselblad H users with Phase/Leaf/Sinar backs who found that lenses were being introduced that they could not use with their system. Since they already bought in, they had a fair gripe. But they were the "collateral damage" of the decision. That is largely in the past - these days, it's very clear where you're headed with either system, so new buyers have the choice in front of them, rather than getting caught up after they've made their investment.



Steve Hendrix

[eronald]

Steve,

 I agree with you. We can cut the BS. We now have moved to two closed ecosystems de facto, just like we have brands N and C in the 35mm world. There's no point in allocating blame or going back in history.


Edmund

But I agree (and have in the past) that you could make a lot of open vs closed arguments and Capture One not being open to Hasselblad files could indeed be one of them. Sometimes closed vs open comes down to - is the party that does not have access willing to agree to the terms of the party that does? Or was the decision to not offer that access part of the strategy from the start? These questions often remain unanswered. The biggest issue was the initial decision, which pissed off many existing Hasselblad H users with Phase/Leaf/Sinar backs who found that lenses were being introduced that they could not use with their system. Since they already bought in, they had a fair gripe. But they were the "collateral damage" of the decision. That is largely in the past - these days, it's very clear where you're headed with either system, so new buyers have the choice in front of them, rather than getting caught up after they've made their investment.



Steve Hendrix

[design_freak]

In a period of crisis, the only marquet that grows is the luxury one. (and the Lidl supermarkets) As always.

As you pointed, we will see more of the same saga in the next years for sure. Nothing groundbreaking, none of the expected features but breaking the 100MP barrier. But we might see the marketing deps working hard in puting those brands names in the luxury hobbyists more than ever. Those hobbyists will be the one who will get the workshops. New workshops in Abu Dabi, in Monaco and Cancun and it will keep people jobs.

You'll see a lot of imagination in that terrain yes, technologically very little but in that terrain we will soon have new Ferrari's style releases. A Louis Vuitton is still missing.

It's scary, but I think you're right. See this:
http://www.pentaximaging.com/about-us.aspx?p=press&pid=PENTAXANNOUNCESLIMITEDEDITION645D20110712152451


Manufacturers arranged a contest for the ugliest camera?

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve,

 Let's cut the BS. We now have moved to two closed ecosystems de facto, just like we have brands N and C in the 35mm world. There's no point in allocating blame or going back in history.


Edmund

 

If you mean the systems are closed because there are so few choices you can buy new today, then yes, I would say trumpeting Open for buying new products, putting all sorts of backs on all sorts of cameras is yes, BS (though I am not the one trumpeting it). If one buys a new Phase One camera, what choices other than Phase (or Leaf) digital backs do they have with new products going forward? Yes, few, it's an overstated advantage.

But from the standpoint of the system itself - yes it (the Phase/Mamiya) is open. Keep in mind, many of our clients still buy new Phase One/Leaf digital backs and put them on legacy camera systems. Many put older Phase/Leaf (even a few Sinar/Imacon) digital backs on new Phase One/Mamiya camera systems.

I'm not the one trumpeting "open systems vs closed". These are just the facts. And if you read my posts on the topic now and historically, you'll see that it's not been me who's assigned blame. I'm just stating facts, and always in response to someone else bringing up the topic.


Steve Hendrix

[eronald]

Steve,

 I edited my post. I wholly agree with you. Looking forward, people should realize it's now a bipolar world, although legacy systems support is good, as you mention.

Edmund

 

If you mean the systems are closed because there are so few choices you can buy new today, then yes, I would say trumpeting Open for buying new products, putting all sorts of backs on all sorts of cameras is yes, BS (though I am not the one trumpeting it). If one buys a new Phase One camera, what choices other than Phase (or Leaf) digital backs do they have with new products going forward? Yes, few, it's an overstated advantage.

But from the standpoint of the system itself - yes it (the Phase/Mamiya) is open. Keep in mind, many of our clients still buy new Phase One/Leaf digital backs and put them on legacy camera systems. Many put older Phase/Leaf (even a few Sinar/Imacon) digital backs on new Phase One/Mamiya camera systems.

I'm not the one trumpeting "open systems vs closed". These are just the facts. And if you read my posts on the topic now and historically, you'll see that it's not been me who's assigned blame. I'm just stating facts, and always in response to someone else bringing up the topic.


Steve Hendrix

[fredjeang]

Fred,

 You and I we can get a couple of models, and teach a workshop. In the end the success of the workshop depends on the models

 Actually, I'm thinking of taking a workshop myself (not fashion) but maybe I should just come for a week and assist in Spain

Edmund

If you actually want to assist in Madrid touching a MF gear, forget it...it's been ages since I haven't seen one in action. But I'm far to know every cat on the block.

Doing workshops? Well, I'm not sure it's the model by the way. I think if you do workshops without MF something will be missing because in the end it's always the same story. When they pay, people want the biggest high-end possible. It would be completly logical to have a super expensive top-model and entry-level cameras, but you generaly have "entry-level" models with the super expensive gear. People in workshops goes for the gear in general.

Anyway, if you pass by Madrid, send me a mail.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Actually, no, that's my growingly frustrating experience with H2's. It just ends up locking up. Not syncing with the flash, not firing, stops communicating with the backs. It happens 1-4 times during a shoot. The remedy is to take the battery out, the lens off, the back off, put it all back on and hope for the best.

I use quite alot of different assistants and they all know what to do when it happens so it's common place and a known issue.

It is otherwise a good system and I've kept using it despite of the frustration (which at important times in the shoot can be really annoying). My only other gripe is the lenses could be more compact and it could be less plasticky feeling. To be honest I wish you would create some new lenses for the V Bodies.

Am I complaining? respectfully, yup.

And you blame this on the H2 and not the digital back automatically?

[UlfKrentz]

And you blame this on the H2 and not the digital back automatically?

I was wondering, too. Several H bodys and Leaf backs here, no probs at all. (May be because we don´t change the assistants  )

Cheers, Ulf

[eronald]

If you actually want to assist in Madrid touching a MF gear, forget it...it's been ages since I haven't seen one in action. But I'm far to know every cat on the block.

Doing workshops? Well, I'm not sure it's the model by the way. I think if you do workshops without MF something will be missing because in the end it's always the same story. When they pay, people want the biggest high-end possible. It would be completly logical to have a super expensive top-model and entry-level cameras, but you generaly have "entry-level" models with the super expensive gear. People in workshops goes for the gear in general.

Anyway, if you pass by Madrid, send me a mail.

I think if we really wanted to do this, we could probably ask people to bring their own gear, apart from lights; we supply model(s), style help, and makeup.

Edmund

[DeeJay]

And you blame this on the H2 and not the digital back automatically?

And you, automatically, will blame anything but the camera?

[David Grover / Capture One]

And you, automatically, will blame anything but the camera?

I am suggesting it could be either, but it is easier to blame the camera!

[DeeJay]

I am suggesting it could be either, but it is easier to blame the camera!

Blame is irrelevant. No other system I have tried has the same issue.