What is this in my image?

[MichaelAmira]

Hello,

I got myself an old Mamiya 645, and on the top of some of the images taken with it there are unusual light differences (lines? see attached images please). Is this because of a sticky shutter?. I'm leaving on a trip soon and want to get it repaired. What do I ask to have done?

Thank you,
Michael

ps: if anybody knows a good repair shop in Montreal please let me know

[Alan Klein]

Are you sure the film is going in straight?  Maybe there's something stuck inside that is blocking the top part of the film so it doesn't get exposed?

[MichaelEzra]

Could this be the film scanner - (try rescanning the same frame flipped)?
Try another lab?

[MichaelAmira]

Thank you for the reply to the both of you.

This has happened with the past four roles of film that I have used, so I don't think it is a problem the way I am loading the camera. The film was processed and scanned at a reputable establishment... I can't imagine the error is on their part. I'll check out the negatives tomorrow.

I posted both images so that you all could see that it varies in severity and location at the top of the images (it is always at the top). I noticed that it never happened with the long exposure frames.

Any other ideas?
 
Michael

edit: this problem is inconsistent. Sometimes it is there and sometimes it is not. Out of a roll there will be four or five that have this problem.

[TMARK]

Your shutter is bouncing, common failure mode for early Mamiya shutters.

On the 645AF and AFd they just replace the shutter with the improved version.  MAC in Elmsford, NY is fantastic.

Good luck!

Hello,

I got myself an old Mamiya 645, and on the top of some of the images taken with it there are unusual light differences (lines? see attached images please). Is this because of a sticky shutter?. I'm leaving on a trip soon and want to get it repaired. What do I ask to have done?

Thank you,
Michael

ps: if anybody knows a good repair shop in Montreal please let me know

[amsp]

Yupp, looks like a shutter issue, shouldn't be too expensive to fix.

Your shutter is bouncing, common failure mode for early Mamiya shutters.

On the 645AF and AFd they just replace the shutter with the improved version.  MAC in Elmsford, NY is fantastic.

Good luck!

[MichaelAmira]

The repair probably will cost more than the body... but I don't want to start fresh with a new body that could have problems.

Is the consensus shutter issues?

[marcmccalmont]

I just bought a phase one 645 so I'll be selling my 645 AFDII let me know if your interested it works perfect!
Marc

[MichaelAmira]

If you want to sell it for less than the repair cost I'm in!

[TMARK]

Send it to MAC in NY.  I think its in the $400 range, and the shutter is the improved, stronger version.

[MichaelAmira]

I should add that the model I am using is the 645J

http://www.google.ca/images?q=mamiya+645+j&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=834&bih=672

Michael

[ondebanks]

The repair probably will cost more than the body... but I don't want to start fresh with a new body that could have problems.

Is the consensus shutter issues?

No! I wonder if the people who are confidently telling you it's a shutter issue ever used one of the original all-metal M645s like your M645J, or ever saw this problem first hand.

I have actually had this problem in one of my M645 1000s bodies. It's not a shutter issue. It is a light leak issue. I replaced the foam seals around the door of the film chamber, and that solved it. This is an easy DIY fix. A few bucks for a sheet of adhesive-backed black camera foam, cut strips to size, scrape out the old degraded black foam gunk, insert the new strips, and bob's your uncle.

Let's think for a moment about how this happens. If it was a shutter bounce, there would be blurring of the focused image in the affected area - but there's not. Instead, there is a very diffuse extended band of light - often bluish in colour (hint: light leak from blue sky around the camera). The light leak is happening not when the frame is in the gate, but just prior to that, when the frame is sitting around the top of the roll, and facing the back door of the film chamber (hint: the band of light has a sharp cutoff on one side, where it emerges from contact with the roll, and a fuzzier edge on the other side, where it curves away towards the front of the camera). It is all perfectly explicable by thinking about the geometry.

Ray

[TMARK]

I assumed it was an AFd.  I'll buy that it is a light leak, although there is no blue sky on the 4/5 train.  My bouncing shutter problem did produce something that looked like this, although the band was darker.

[MichaelAmira]

No! I wonder if the people who are confidently telling you it's a shutter issue ever used one of the original all-metal M645s like your M645J, or ever saw this problem first hand.

I have actually had this problem in one of my M645 1000s bodies. It's not a shutter issue. It is a light leak issue. I replaced the foam seals around the door of the film chamber, and that solved it. This is an easy DIY fix. A few bucks for a sheet of adhesive-backed black camera foam, cut strips to size, scrape out the old degraded black foam gunk, insert the new strips, and bob's your uncle.

Let's think for a moment about how this happens. If it was a shutter bounce, there would be blurring of the focused image in the affected area - but there's not. Instead, there is a very diffuse extended band of light - often bluish in colour (hint: light leak from blue sky around the camera). The light leak is happening not when the frame is in the gate, but just prior to that, when the frame is sitting around the top of the roll, and facing the back door of the film chamber (hint: the band of light has a sharp cutoff on one side, where it emerges from contact with the roll, and a fuzzier edge on the other side, where it curves away towards the front of the camera). It is all perfectly explicable by thinking about the geometry.

Ray

Thank you Ray,

I am completely new to medium format film. Do you know where I could buy this foam, and where the foam that may be problematic is?

Michael

[ondebanks]

Thank you Ray,

I am completely new to medium format film. Do you know where I could buy this foam, and where the foam that may be problematic is?

Michael

Hi Michael,

Search for this in ebay: 2MM FOAM CAMERA LIGHT SHIELD SEAL 10" X 10" adhesive

It goes at the back of the body, in the grooves which the raised edges of the door close into, forming a seal against light. You will find some sticky black gunk there where the old foam has degraded.

Also, you may find that some foam has degraded around the top of the mirror box (foam which the mirror rests against when the shutter is opened), and on the underside of the prism or WLF - there should be a small strip of foam at both ends of the prism/WLF just to seat it smoothly when it is locked on.

Good luck,
Ray

[ondebanks]

I'll buy that it is a light leak, although there is no blue sky on the 4/5 train. 

Remember, I said that the leak happens before the frame in question is wound into the film gate. He could have been carrying it around outside in daylight before getting on the train. If the camera was cocked all this time, the affected frame would be his 2nd exposure after the light leak had already occured; if not cocked, then it would be his 1st exposure after the leak.