Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: PhotoKit Sharpener 2  (Read 43843 times)

Jeff Kott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2011, 03:59:05 pm »

Installed pks 2 today and it all went smoothly...but, when i opened photoshop CS5 i had both the old version and new version under automate, i thought the old version would be gone...i activated the new version, which i'm only just now checking out but man, cool...i then manually deleted version 1.2.9 from the photoshop plug-ins folder...anyone else had to do this?...I think i did deactivate the old version correctly before installing new version but am not totally sure...

Yes, after installing PK2, I now have both versions under the automate tab in CS5.

I haven't deleted my Version 1 yet - I'd still like to hear from Jeff or Andrew (see my question above) if the new and old versions are the same under the hood (i.e., with identical settings for capture and output sharpening with both versions, will sharpening be the same?).

The one thing that did surprise me with the new version was that all image captures over 8 mp get the same capture sharpening (high res). I was thinking that with some of the new cameras exceeding 20 mp there would be another level of capture sharpening added to the menu (higher res?).
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2011, 04:42:58 pm »

I haven't deleted my Version 1 yet - I'd still like to hear from Jeff or Andrew (see my question above) if the new and old versions are the same under the hood (i.e., with identical settings for capture and output sharpening with both versions, will sharpening be the same?).

No, V 1.x and V 2 are different. It's subtle...First off, you get the ability to do an Auto Edge Width with 2 you can't do with 1. And in Output Sharpener 2, you really only choose Matte or Glossy and PKS 2 does the auto sharpening based on the image resolution...

Quote
The one thing that did surprise me with the new version was that all image captures over 8 mp get the same capture sharpening (high res). I was thinking that with some of the new cameras exceeding 20 mp there would be another level of capture sharpening added to the menu (higher res?).

We tested that...up to the 60MP Phase P65+ back and found that unlike output sharpening that is completely dependent upon PPI resolution, the edge masks for captures above that kinda magic mark of say, 10-12MP, the sharpening works fine.

The only thing I would say is test it yourself and give us feedback...several of our testers were using PKS 2 for capture sharpening P40+, P65+ and Hasselblad captures...their feedback was positive.

For my own work, I tend to do a lot of stuff in Camera Raw or Lightroom (kinda have to keep up with both applications–particularly Camera Raw since I do a book on that).

So for my workflow (and since I'm pretty good at using the ACR sharpening controls) I tend not to use PKS 2 capture sharpening unless I'm doing something like a pano merge.

For any serious printing, I'll pop the images into Photoshop (using from Lightroom) and do retouching and soft proofing corrections there. Most of the time I prefer to print out of Lightroom and I'm perfectly happy to output sharpen there. If I need to print out of Photoshop, I'm perfectly happy to do the output sharpening in PKS 2.

The primary reason I like using LR's output sharpening is workflow. I can render a master image TIFF without worrying about resizing and resampling until I go to print. In LR's templates I've got all my standard print sizes and paper types. I size the cell in the print to give me the margins I want.

Often I'll let the image resolution fall to whatever the PPI would be for that print dimensions...however, of late (particularly with P65+ captures printed on EFP) I actually use Lightroom's interpolation to go to 720PPI. Lightroom's interpolation is better than in Photoshop's. It's an adaptive blend of different Bicubic variants based on the resampled size.

By keeping my master image in Lightroom without output sharpening applied, I can cut WAY down on the number if file iterations I need to keep track of compared to a Photoshop workflow where I need to spawn off a different file for each size print I make.
Logged

Dave Gurtcheff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2011, 01:23:59 am »

Thanks for the replies. My work flow with 35mm full frame digital goes something like this:
1. Convert RAW files and lens corrections in DXO Optics Pro. I had not turned off any default sharpening here, but now will do so.
2. Open the DXO TIFF image in CS5.
3. I do seascapes and almost always put sky on one layer, and foreground on another layer.
4. Apply adjustment layers (usually levels and hue/saturation) to EACH layer separately. Works wonders.
5. Apply local dodge/burn etc to sky and foregrounds.
6. Save as a master file with layers intact. NO CAPTURE SHARPENING APPLIED YET (Am I correct here?).
7. When I get a print order for say a 20"x30", I do the following:
   1. Rename the file as something like "20x30 sharp flat-FILE NAME"
   2. Flatten all layers.
   3. APPLY PK Sharpener Capture Sharpen.
   4. Resize to 20"x30" using CS5 or "Blowup 2".
   5. Apply PK Ink jet Output sharpener.
Is my workflow OK? Am I correct in applying Capture and output sharpeners where I do?
Thanks in advance.
Dave



"Whether to use ACR/LR or PKS 2 for capture sharpening is again more of a workflow issue. PKS 2 is now pretty automated. ACR/LR needs careful adjustment. But it's an either or proposition...you should only use one OR the other."

EXACTLY why I purchased PK 1 and then 2. I am an "amateur", and need help here with automation. If I had the time, energy, and expertise (I'm 74 yrs old) to experiment with the infinite combinations of "Amount", "Radius", "Detail" and "Masking", I would do so. Your's is a life saver...as I scan 35mm BW, and color negs, medium format BW & color negs, and high end digital files, and make 20"x30" and 24"x32" prints (and sell them!), I  depend on you. Thank you.
Dave
www.modernpictorials.com


Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2011, 01:36:07 am »

Is my workflow OK? Am I correct in applying Capture and output sharpeners where I do?

Yes, as far as I can see based on your written outline of your workflow...the only question would be at what point you might do "creative sharpening".

Since you flatten before capture and output sharpening, I'm not sure if you might not be leaving image quality on the table without doing a touch of local creative sharpening...ideally creative sharpening should be done AFTER capture but before output sharpening (and usually done locally so it helps certain areas without hurting other areas).
Logged

Patricia Sheley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1109
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2011, 11:36:59 am »

What a fool I am for not having gotten right to the task of a careful read of the manual. We have spent the last two nights together, and something curious has happened...early on in the manual (sharpening basics pg 8 environs) the image and graph depicting an edge transition was used to give an understanding of the tonal shifts to light and dark pixels and the amount of shift of each...

The concept I am ashamed to say is one I never understood till now...EVERYTHING in the manual makes perfect sense to me now and I realize that before now I may as well have been touching any and all aspects of sharpening from within a huge burlap bag and wrapped with thick fleece.  I feel such a new sense of excitement as it relates to photography and what I had hoped to project in any particular image...

But the curious thing...as I fell asleep early this morning I started thinking about the images of Constantin Brancusi within his studio and Steichen, and how they saw sculpturally in B&W.  I started thinking about how a sound understanding of how this sharpening actually takes place is a powerful tool in how we actually see the intended workspace/image and how we choose to place our intended focus and where and how informed by the light with a mind to how we may be using this material farther on in the workflow...another wonderful reason for slow careful work at conception. This has been an amazing revelation for me, and I hope it will become evident in any of my work from this day forward. Just amazing to me what it took to finally have this moment of clarity...Thank you....worth so much more than the price of admission...

« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 11:39:04 am by Patricia Sheley »
Logged
A common woman~

artobest

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 285
    • http://www.siskinpress.co.uk
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2011, 11:53:18 am »

Hi PixelGeniuses

I downloaded the upgrade yesterday -- greatly excited by this as PKS is an essential part of my routines. I've just tested the Capture Sharpening on a drum scan of a Hasselblad image shot on Ilford FP4 using the 6x6 Negative setting and Auto Sharp, and I've noticed that the image is actually softer after processing. This seems to be due to a combination of the Smoothing layer and over-enthusiastic masking. Removing the Smoothing layer returns pixel sharpness to pre-processing levels, but only a levels adjustment to each mask brings up overall sharpness. I've experimented with the other settings too, and found that Slow Neg with the Smoothing off is better -- closer to the old PKS1 result.

This is contrary to expectations, I presume. Any comments?

Peter

I Simonius

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2011, 12:17:49 pm »

Is there any way I can get the PPC Mac version of this (PKS ) as Im not upgrading to an Intel mac for a long time ( if ever)?
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2011, 12:36:41 pm »

This has been an amazing revelation for me, and I hope it will become evident in any of my work from this day forward. Just amazing to me what it took to finally have this moment of clarity...Thank you....worth so much more than the price of admission...

Thanks for taking the time to say this...I'm really glad the manual helped you make your breakthrough!
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2011, 12:41:01 pm »

I've just tested the Capture Sharpening on a drum scan of a Hasselblad image shot on Ilford FP4 using the 6x6 Negative setting and Auto Sharp, and I've noticed that the image is actually softer after processing.

I'll have to take a look at the 6x6 neg setting and see what's what. Adding grayscale to PKS 2 was something a lot of people wanted. You are using a grayscale version of the scan or it is RGB? Ilford FP4 is a pretty fine grain film, right?
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2011, 12:43:09 pm »

Is there any way I can get the PPC Mac version of this (PKS ) as Im not upgrading to an Intel mac for a long time ( if ever)?

What version of Photoshop? PKS 2 will run on CS3, CS4 & CS5. Only CS5 requires MacIntel. PKS 2 has the same system requirements as the version of Photoshop it runs in. So, as long as you have CS3 or above, you can use PKS 2.
Logged

artobest

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 285
    • http://www.siskinpress.co.uk
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2011, 03:35:04 pm »

I'll have to take a look at the 6x6 neg setting and see what's what. Adding grayscale to PKS 2 was something a lot of people wanted. You are using a grayscale version of the scan or it is RGB? Ilford FP4 is a pretty fine grain film, right?

I'm using RGB as I assumed grayscale was still a no-no for PKS. (I did actually try the effect on a grayscale version and got an error message.)

Yes, FP4 is a fine-grained film - at least, it certainly doesn't need grain suppression under normal circumstances.

I Simonius

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2011, 04:52:56 pm »

What version of Photoshop? PKS 2 will run on CS3, CS4 & CS5. Only CS5 requires MacIntel. PKS 2 has the same system requirements as the version of Photoshop it runs in. So, as long as you have CS3 or above, you can use PKS 2.

Ah - I didnt realsiee that - I thought it needed Intel

OK great - I'm using CS4

thanks
Logged

Dave Gurtcheff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2011, 05:11:40 pm »

Yes, as far as I can see based on your written outline of your workflow...the only question would be at what point you might do "creative sharpening".

Since you flatten before capture and output sharpening, I'm not sure if you might not be leaving image quality on the table without doing a touch of local creative sharpening...ideally creative sharpening should be done AFTER capture but before output sharpening (and usually done locally so it helps certain areas without hurting other areas).

Thank you again for your reply. I am a bit embarrased to admit it, but Creative Sharpening is a bit intimidating to me, and I have never tried using it.  ??? ??? I have been away from home for 3 weeks, and working off an underpowered lap top. Tomorrow we return home with a 6 or 7 hour plane trip....plenty of time to re-read the manual! I will play with Creative Sharpening when I arrive home.
Thanks again
Dave
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2011, 06:09:39 pm »

I'm using RGB as I assumed grayscale was still a no-no for PKS. (I did actually try the effect on a grayscale version and got an error message.)

No, we retooled all of the sharpening in PKS 2 to work with both RGB & Grayscale (which was a LOT of work).

When you tried doing a grayscale capture sharpen did you get the error on the attempt to Preview? Or an error when running it? The reason I ask is we have a fix coming for problem generating Previews with some of the grayscale Auto capture sharpening...

As for the 6x6 resulting in too smooth a result, we're looking into that.
Logged

artobest

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 285
    • http://www.siskinpress.co.uk
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2011, 06:37:26 pm »



When you tried doing a grayscale capture sharpen did you get the error on the attempt to Preview? Or an error when running it? The reason I ask is we have a fix coming for problem generating Previews with some of the grayscale Auto capture sharpening...


I got an error on the Preview.

Thanks for looking into the smoothing problem. For clarification I should add that, although the majority of the image is softer after processing, some strong edges are sharpened - just not many of them, and the overall effect is of noise reduction rather than capture sharpening. 

dreed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1564
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2011, 07:52:54 am »

As time goes by, Photoshop/CS is becoming more and more irrelevant to my post production of digital photographs for two reasons: I try and get more right when I take the photo and I'm making more use of the features in LR.

If I were starting over now, I'd not even bother with Photoshop, which would make tools like this cost not $99 but $1098.
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2011, 04:23:23 pm »

I got an error on the Preview.

We've just updated PKS 2 to version 2.0.1 last nite which fixes the Preview error and a few other errors like Output Sharpener 2 failures on non-English versions of Photoshop. Available on the Downloads page of the PG site.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12511
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2011, 09:46:08 pm »

Jeff, people may want to know - if they've installed 2.0 already and now wish to up-grade to the dot releases with the fixes: (a) is it seamless (i.e. no need to locate and re-install a serial number), and (b) should one delete the previous install (i.e. 2.0) first?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2011, 10:34:18 pm »

Jeff, people may want to know - if they've installed 2.0 already and now wish to up-grade to the dot releases with the fixes: (a) is it seamless (i.e. no need to locate and re-install a serial number), and (b) should one delete the previous install (i.e. 2.0) first?

Pretty sure there's no need to remove the previous 2.0.0 version and simply make sure you quit Photoshop and run the 2.0.1 installer.

No need to deactivate (nor trash the previous version unlike the process we had for beta testers HOWEVER, beta tester SHOULD remove ANY beta versions before installing 2.0.0 or 2.0.1 GM versions).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 12:19:03 am by Schewe »
Logged

Paul Sumi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1217
Re: PhotoKit Sharpener 2
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2011, 12:11:08 am »

Pretty sure there's no need to remove the previous 2.0.0 version and simply make sure you quite Photoshop and run the 2.0.1 installer.

Yes, I installed 2.01 directly over 2.00 with no problems (PS CS5, XP SP3, 32 bit version).

Paul
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Up