Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??

[boku]

Since I have the 17-40 and intend to spring for the 5D, I actually printed a 13x19 of the sample landscape JPEG. I knew full well the corners were soft. I cannot afford to get the 16-35 at this time, and I'm not so sure that it would be all that much better.

Based on the results of the print, I'll deal with the corner softness of the 17-40. On most scenes it will not be a problem.

We all know that the superior image created by FF DSLR would do this with Canon's wide zooms. Why the surprise? I'll deal with it.

Nevertheless, something like a razor-sharp 18mm f/4 L for, say $600, would be selling like hotcakes, no?

[EAD]

..

[EAD]

My definition of a civilized debate is discussing the subject without engaging in gratuitous personal attacks.

Right.

anyone willing to discuss this is by definition talking out of their rectum.

Yeah, right ,very civilised.

Such a camera is inconsistent with Canon's stated intentions regarding DSLR development and production, at least until the 1- series (1Ds and 1D mark whatever) is combined into a single high-speed, high resolution model. Until that happens, the introduction of a model between the 1D-MkII and the 20D is highly unlikely.

Yeah, you got that one right too!!.

the body could very well be a lightly-Photoshopped 10D

YEP...

a real document would not have the tech specifications in English and the headings in Spanish

Well, I happen to be spanish, and believe me, in Spain anything is possible...

For that much, I'd sell you my ex-wife!!!

Well, at least I agree with you on that one.. ::

Dont get me wrong Jonathan.I dont doubt of your great skills and knowledge,(your site is full of usefull info),but my point is that you seem to enjoy the freedom of posting whatever you feel like (which is good) ,whenever you like, even when completely wrong, and the truth is that more times than less your comments and answers to people that just ask things they dont know (unfortunately not allof us enjoy your wisdom)
or start threads just for the fun of it,are too harsh and patronizing for my taste.

Just rivers of cold technical data...no warmth.
As far as I see here could very well just be a robot behind your keyboard answering threads..

I dont mean to offend, but I do think sometimes you should ease up a bit man...

Excuse my poor english, sorry if I offended anybody or skiped any basic rule of forum beheaviour here.

PS.
By the way Jonathan, I have been wondering...

What the heck is your avatar??


Have a nice day.

Erik.

[BernardLanguillier]

When I stated that, the Nikon alternative never even entered my mind. I just have no time for the science any more. I barely have enough time for photography.

I appreciate your point though. I just have no way of dealing with agreeing with it or refuting it. It's plausible, I guess.

Hi Boku,

Yep, the whole goal was to take images, wasn't it?...

I understand your point completely, and since Canon didn't propose both a 12 MP APS and the 5D, the 5D seems to be the best option indeed.

Regards,
Bernard

[Jonathan Wienke]

But, please don't think that kind of behavior is the norm here.  I've never seen it before, though, I haven't been a member for all that long.

It is a recent phenomenon. I've patricipated in the forums here for over two years, and had extensive, vigorous, detailed, and long winded debates before (look up my DOF debate with Howard Smith as a prime example), but have never witnessed anyone being called called things like "elitist douche bag" before, nor witnessed or participated in discussions where anyone was told to shut the f*** up. There truly has been a drop in the civility level here; the line between vigorous debate and gratuitous personal attacks has clearly been crossed. I just hope that doesn't drive away people who would otherwise participate positively in thes forums.

[EAD]

Can we all have a group hug?

/hug

...Absolutely!!

I might be guilty of what has happened here (though I honestly didnt want to start all this, neither do I recall using any "names" or insults..)

I just wanted to call the attention over what I believe is a (sometimes) excesive harshness in some answers. I might have confused this with "honest , intellectual discussion" or even "ardorous debate".

I apollogize for any inconveniences created to this forum and consider this item as "CLOSED". Lets get to the thing we like most and that unite us, like , er..."photography ardorous debate..."??

Happy shooting to u all.


Erik.

[pcg]

The last paragraph in the last post entitled, "To Jonathan," is totally uncalled for. And is simply name calling, once again.

Enough.

[61Dynamic]

By the way Jonathan, I have been wondering...

What the heck is your avatar??

It's a close-up shot of a wolf spider face. Here's a slightly larger view:

Ah-Ha!

I could never quite figure that one out. My best guess was that it was some sort of tribal coconut mask... Now I now.

One additional factor is how poor a medium instant written communcation is (often in a foreign language). You have smileys, but they are a very poor replacement for our complex body language. This results in many misunderstandings that would just not happen in the open.

That's why - unlike Napoleon Dynamite's brother - I don't chat with hot babes on the internet. It's dangerous.

To all,
   If my posts to Jonathan offended anyone other than Jonathan, then mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa, actually. Please check my initial thread on the possible new Canon and my subsequent posts on this thread to see that I was simply only trying to pass on information to fellow photographers. I did not expect this thing to snowball into the ugliness that it became. In my post of August 23rd, I stated as much and asked if could we please just get back to photography.

emphasis added.

That's not a real apology. The person you slung mud at is the one that the apology should be directed to first of all. An apology to the rest  of us for degrading the discourse of these forums is secondary to that.

The fact that you can't apologize for that comment to the person you directed it to (Jonathan) you clearly are not truly sorry for your behavior.

If that is the case, I'd rather you not venture back to these forums as we don't need that sort of crap here. These forums are for mature and intelligent debate by mature and intelligent individuals.

[Tibor22]

What happens to all the doubter's of the existence of this camera from the previous post? You guys will never learn. Manufacturers unofficially leak information about new products all the time. And it seems that new improved DSLR's are going to be released every year. Get used to it.

[RobertJ]

To John Camp - Yes, you can use Zeiss, Olympus, Pentax, Leica, Nikon, and other lenses on your Canon body.  Many people are using Zeiss lenses, especially on the 1Ds2.  I don't know how this can "solve" the problem, since it's not a Canon lens, but in a sense, it DOES solve the problem of bad wide angle performance on full-frame digital.  With an adapter, the lens must be focused wide open manually, then stopped down via the aperture ring.  You can meter in Aperture Priority mode.  The following lenses have excellent performance on a 1Ds2, with most of them having very good corner to corner sharpness:

Zeiss Distagon 21mm f/2.8 - The king of the world.
Zeiss Distagon 28mm f/2 - Very nice
Zeiss Distagon 28mm f/2.8 - Excellent, bargain lens, not as good as the f/2 at close focusing.  I use it for infinity focus mostly.
Zeiss Distagon 18mm f/4 - Extreme center sharpness.

Olympus Zuiko 21mm f/2 - the closest you'll get to a Zeiss 21mm.
Olympus Zuiko 21mm f/3.5 - Good at infinity, stopped down.
Olympus Zuiko 28mm f/2 - Olympus' sharpest lens made for this system.
Olympus Zuiko 18mm f/3.5 - Virtually distortion free compared to the Zeiss 18mm, but not as sharp as the Zeiss in the center.

I've heard of some very good old Nikon lenses too, like the 20mm f/4.  Maybe some Nikon folk could tell us more about the history of Nikon wide angles.

Anyway, have fun!

[Jonathan Wienke]

So what did I get right?
1) August Announcement
2) 12 Meg
3) Autumn shipping
4) Camera will be in the line of the D60, 10D, 20D, etc.
5) Fuller frame (1/2 point I suppose)

What did I get wrong?
1) 5D is the name not 40D

...

So please lighten up, you elitist douche bag.

Hugs & Kisses,
Heavysigh.

Points 1 and 3 are Canon's customary time frame for fall camera introductions, so I don't see any great credit for correctly predicting those. I feel safe predicting that Canon will introduce camera models next spring, which will ship next summer, even though I have no insider knowledge whatsoever. It's just the way Canon does things. Regarding point 4, the 5D is clearly not in the same market segment or model line as the D60/10D/20D (note that it has a single-digit model number and is 2x the cost of the 20D, which is NOT being discontinued at this time) so your prediction in that regard is erroneous, as was your prediction regarding #5. Full frame is not the same as 1.3x. So you're still only 3/5 if you include the fairly obvious easy-to-guess points 1 & 3, but leave them aside and you're 1 for 3, which isn't all that stellar. I don't think my characterization of the accuracy of your information was particularly unfair.

[EAD]

..

[macgyver]

It mostly results from them providing USM years before their Nikon counterparts. The addition of VR and of some good DSLR did re-inforce this, but the initial move was mainly the result of good AF.

I would agree with that.  And, from that point on, it was simply follow the leader.  As in "Well, JoeBob the Sports Shooter uses a Canon.  I want to shoot sports maybe I should too."

macgyver

[macgyver]

I just joined today but the threads in this post are disturbing. Calling someone a Borg or stating that people are talking out of their rectums is just too much.

Many forums have policies to prevent this kind of thing. Flaming, derogatory comments, and personal attacks are simply not tolerated. Maybe this kind of policy should be used here. Ban the troublemakers for awhile and let them cool off.

Someone please end this post. Start a new one on the Canon 5D.

Now, let's get back to photography.

Amen.

But, please don't think that kind of behavior is the norm here.  I've never seen it before, though, I haven't been a member for all that long.

-macgyver

[BernardLanguillier]

Sherry Turkle wroke interesting things about this in her book "life on the screen".

Besides the lack of concern for physical retaliation, there is also the fact that the medium of communication affects people's personnality. This is true when using a foreign language, but also when using internet.

One additional factor is how poor a medium instant written communcation is (often in a foreign language). You have smileys, but they are a very poor replacement for our complex body language. This results in many misunderstandings that would just not happen in the open.

One last factor is a certain trash talk culture in some countries that probably seem cool for the people using them, but come accross as being plain rude for outsiders. Being direct and straight, a sub-form of the above, can be good, but can also be perceived as being agressive.

Regards,
Bernard

[Jonathan Wienke]

You have completely missed the point. Nobody doubted that Canon was preparing to introduce new camera(s), but there were good reasons to doubt the specifics of some of the rumors. And many of the rumors turned out to be inaccurate.

[BernardLanguillier]

I think the 5D is a price point Killer. <4000$ for a full frame!?!?
nikon and minolta are tearing their collective hair out.

The 5D seems to be a very interesting piece of camera, but I don't see what would cause Nikon as a company to become desperate. I am not even talking about Nikon shooters who are fully aware of the remarkable quality of Canon gear.

Now, if you want to engage in some comparison between the D2X and the 5D... which your post seems to imply is needed:

- There are of course some advantages to FF if you are after very limited DOF (mostly not the case for landscape) and potentally at ISO above 800 (although I suspect based on the D50 noise behaviour that the D200 will surprise some in this area).

- For the rest, the D2x was already shown to offer better image quality that a 1DsII in the corner of wide angles shots, I don't see how the lower speced 5D would become more of a thread to it. Those who saw the 17-40 sample will have to agree with me on this one. I really hope than the final body will perform better,

- Granted, the price is about the same as that of the D2x, but the physical aspects of the body appear to be somewhat lower level, closer to a 20D than to a 1DsII IMHO.

- The real thing will be the comparison between the 5D and the D200 if the Nikon ends up being indeed 12.8 MP too.

Regards,
Bernard

[EAD]

..

[EAD]

I am so gratefull to Mr.Reichman for this site!!

Much have I learnt here and much do I owe to him...but...

..if one thing I´ve learnt in this time here is that...


...trying to argue with Jonathan is an absolute waste of time..

Erik.

[Big Bird]

The behaviour of people when they are anonymous is quite interesting. A group of people in  a meeting rarely make a habit(well not that often   ) of resorting to insults. On the internet it is a different story, maybe it is because the threat of physical retaliation is removed.