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Author Topic: Handheld Shooting  (Read 2543 times)

JV

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Handheld Shooting
« on: January 31, 2011, 12:43:59 pm »

From the Leaf Aptus II-12 review:

It is folly to shoot hand-held at anything less than 2X the reciprocal of the focal length, and frankly I'd shoot at 3X to be sure of getting decent quality. So, an 80mm lens needs at least a shutter speed of 1/250 sec (80X3). Even then you'll be better of shooting from a tripod, or with electronic flash in the studio if you're working hand-held.

Just wondering whether other people have similar rules.

I personally have a P30+ and I always shoot handheld.
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Ken Doo

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 04:22:24 pm »

Take the jump up from the P30+ to a higher resolution back, and greater care needs to be taken with photographic technique.  The increase in resolution means greater care needs to be taken when shooting handheld, particularly with regards to focus.

Doug Peterson

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 04:52:27 pm »

From the Leaf Aptus II-12 review:

It is folly to shoot hand-held at anything less than 2X the reciprocal of the focal length, and frankly I'd shoot at 3X to be sure of getting decent quality. So, an 80mm lens needs at least a shutter speed of 1/250 sec (80X3). Even then you'll be better of shooting from a tripod, or with electronic flash in the studio if you're working hand-held.

Just wondering whether other people have similar rules.

I personally have a P30+ and I always shoot handheld.

Bear in mind the goals and comparison points for the author.

For maximum per-pixel quality 3x the shutter speed (depending on the shooter and how he is standing/bracing himself) is a great rule of thumb for these super-high res systems.

However going lower in shutter speed may result in many of the images being slightly soft when viewed at 100% (meaning the system could have produced more resolution), but could still make highly detailed large prints. Viewing at 100% has become the new sole definition of "sharpness" for many photographers. This mentality creates a lot of misperceptions regarding sharpness/detail.

For instance let's compare:
- A handheld 80mp system which is slightly soft at 100%
- A 5DII which is absolutely crisp sharp at 100%

The "real" resolution of the handheld 80mp may well be much higher than the "real" resolution of the 5DII. Meaning when you make a print of any given size that you can see more real-world detail in the subject in the slightly-soft-at-100%-80mp image than the 5DII image.

This is not dissimilar to the old days when a slightly soft 8x10 would often reproduce much better than a wicked-sharp 35mm (which had to be enlarged much more for any given print size).

Another comparison point:
- a handheld P30+ with 80mm lens at 1/125th
- a handheld IQ180 with 80mm lens at 1/125th

It's very possible that the IQ180 would show slight softness and the P30+ would be completely sharp when viewed at 100% pixel level but for the IQ180 to still contain more real world detail. Being slightly soft at 100% pixel level only tells you the system could have resolved more detail, it doesn't mean the system didn't resolve a whole stinking lot of detail.

More to the point in the above P30+ and IQ180 example it would be impossible for the IQ180 to show less total detail than the P30+. Shutter speed, flash duration, diffraction, and mediocre lenses can prevent a high-end high-resolution camera from achieving it's maximum resolution, but it cannot make the final image less detailed than the same conditions on a lower resolution camera - but when viewed at 100% the higher resolution camera would appear to be more soft since you're looking at a higher magnification of the subject.

So yes, there is a meaningful lesson in his statement. But don't let it scare you away from higher res systems. If and when you have enough light to up the shutter speed half a stop from where you needed to with the P30+ (or when on a tripod) then you'll get more resolution and real world detail. When you have to use a slower shutter speed you won't get the max out of the system that is possible, but in no case would you get worse real-world detail than with the P30+.

By definition if you're getting sharp images now then there must be some headroom in your current shooting technique to resolve more detail.

But of course the take home message is as always: test the gear you want in the real-world situations you'd want to use it in. Let us know if we can help with that testing through a rental (the rental cost is credited towards your purchase) or in person demonstration.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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tho_mas

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 05:03:57 pm »

IMO it also depends on the actual camera...
With a tech camera (so without mirror) handheld shooting is less critical (actually much less critical). Shooting a 70mm at 1/60'' is super sharp.
A Hasselblad with mirror-shutter delay obviously also improves handheld shooting.
On my Contax' 1/125'' is a limit... either way the focal length used.
So at 1/60'' mirror shake is introduced (even shooting on a tripod). It's not much, i.e. it does not destroy the image. But it's visible.
Of course the above goes for shooting without flash...

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Schewe

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 05:18:31 pm »

However going lower in shutter speed may result in many of the images being slightly soft when viewed at 100% (meaning the system could have produced more resolution), but could still make highly detailed large prints. Viewing at 100% has become the new sole definition of "sharpness" for many photographers. This mentality creates a lot of misperceptions regarding sharpness/detail.

Absolutely true...and unfortunate really. Today's LCD displays are about 100-120 pixels per inch. When you view an image at 100% in Photoshop (or other software) you are viewing an image that might be 3-4 times (or more) the actual dimensional size of many printed output. Yes, you can zoom out to 50% or even 25% to see the image smaller, but unfortunately, your display with a resolution of 100-120PPI is a very low resolution device. One third of the resolution of an image intended for halftone repro.

So when you start examining an image at 100%, you really can't tell how detail will hold up in the final repro. You can do tests and with proper capture and output sharpening you'll find that an image viewed at 100% may well reproduce tack sharp in printed form depending on the final output.

So while it's interesting and important to view your images at 100%, that view can't really tell you the final story. You need to fully process the image and set the final dimensions and resolution of the final print to really be sure what an image will look like.

I went through this when I first got my Phase One 645 and P65+ back...a longish lens and a slowish shutter speed can really kill the fine detail of a really high rez capture. Even shooting flash in the studio won't necessarily fix the freezing of action unless your strobe have a really short duration. Shooting with a high rez back does require excellent photographic skills in order to max out the image quality. But that IQ is also really dependent on the needs of the final out's dimensions and resolution. If you are going out to a 1 or 2 page spread, the demands won't be as high as making a 30" x 40" detailed print. YMMV...
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AldoMurillo

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 06:45:13 pm »

In my case, with a H4D-40, with a mirror-shutter delay of 200 ms...    to be able to get a really sharp image, viewed at 100% with no visible camera shake I would need at least 2.5x of the focal length to be comfortable.    I'm talking when I'm shooting people, that's why now with MFD I use monopod all the time, to get a little bit lower.

Hasselblad leaf shutter helps, I remember when I tried a P40+ with AF and the focal plane shutter felt a little more...

Absolutely true...and unfortunate really. Today's LCD displays are about 100-120 pixels per inch. When you view an image at 100% in Photoshop (or other software) you are viewing an image that might be 3-4 times (or more) the actual dimensional size of many printed output. Yes, you can zoom out to 50% or even 25% to see the image smaller, but unfortunately, your display with a resolution of 100-120PPI is a very low resolution device. One third of the resolution of an image intended for halftone repro.

+1

That's why I would rather have a 15in 200 DPI monitor than a 30in 100 DPI Apple display...  Or the rumored iPad 2 with 2048x1536 (260 DPI) display  :)
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Aldo Murillo

Doug Peterson

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 10:27:00 pm »

Note the Phase One IQ series backs will all have 290 dpi LCDs, round off error (imo) from 300dpi used as a benchmark for a lot of print work. They will also allow zooming at less than 100% and up to 400% zoom depending on your needs.

Nothing can fully emulate a print other than a print, but a preview monitor at 290dpi is a good start.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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JV

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Re: Handheld Shooting
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 12:42:52 pm »

I just watched the Stefan Kapfer movie on the Phase One website where he is doing a handheld fashion shoot with the IQ180. 

It would be interesting to know what his settings were.
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