Imageprint - worth the $ ? - compare to QImage? other views please!

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Ah...so you don't have any issues printing from Mac 10.6.4 either?

Funny, I got the impression you're a Win 7 user...

Correct, you've been analysing my background?
No need, I could have told you when asked, Win 7 Ultimate 64-bits to be specific, ... , which doesn't mean I don't have a working knowledge of the Mac platform. Strike two. And I've chosen Windows over Mac for non-snob-ish reasons.

Cheers,
Bart

[Schewe]

...which doesn't mean I don't have a working knowledge of the Mac platform. Strike two.

Uh huh..so does that mean you HAVE actually printed out to a variety of large format printers via the Epson print driver and Photoshop CS5/LR 3 and Snow Leopard?

"Knowledge" ain't quite the same as actual experience...

(just saying...)

[Gemmtech]

""Knowledge" ain't quite the same as actual experience..."

Knowledge can come from reading a book, speaking to a person in the know, etc. or actual experience
You might have knowledge of something without experience but you certainly can have knowledge
from actually doing it yourself, just saying..................................

There's no doubt printing is easier with a PC today (I use both), MACs have their issues, more than
just printing, but that's another subject.

I believe what you meant to say is Reading about it isn't the same as actually doing it, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

""Knowledge" ain't quite the same as actual experience..."

Knowledge can come from reading a book, speaking to a person in the know, etc. or actual experience

Correct, experience, augmented by the aforementioned ...

Cheers,
Bart

[Schewe]

Correct, experience, augmented by the aforementioned ...

So, you've personally printed out to Epson large format printers with current drivers compatible with Snow Leopard using Photoshop CS5 and/or Lightroom 3?

Just want to be perfectly clear...

[Ernst Dinkla]

Not that I didn't expect this topic would end in a Windows versus OS-X debate. Too many ingredients in the thread for that.

I don't think the color management flaws in the use of Adobe/Apple/driver combinations should be judged just on the issue of target printing, there have been CM problems with every Apple OS change.

http://osdir.com/ml/colorsync-users/2009-10/msg00010.html

more recent on Color in Safari:

http://osdir.com/ml/colorsync-users/2010-10/msg00017.html

Discussed on the Apple Colorsync maling list. True Edmund was there too but he wasn't alone in the observation that the Mac had a reputation to loose as a graphics machine. An opinion you will not only find in the linked threads but in more threads recently.

There is also a long Apple history of failing printer driver support. In that light one can understand the popularity of ImagePrint in Mac circles.  Imageprint's support of the Epson 7900/9900 was a long wait too as I understand it, possibly acceptable for Mac users in view of OS-X CM flaws but no Windows user had to wait to drive its new Epson. As written in this thread there are good alternatives on Windows, Qimage (not a RIP) and most RIPs are Windows native, and I mean all the 32/64 bit versions of XP up to 7. A more paranoia reader of this thread could wonder whether IP's Windows Demo is deliberately not working or shows the lack of Colorbyte's interest for the Windows market. Much harder to compete there.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

So, you've personally printed out to Epson large format printers with current drivers compatible with Snow Leopard using Photoshop CS5 and/or Lightroom 3?

Just want to be perfectly clear...

The answer is no, I didn't push the button myself recently.
Hope that solves the anxiety this seems to have caused.

Okay, back to the topic of how much of a difference there is between IP and QImage, rather than the differences between Win and Mac or between Photoshop and Lightroom 3 ...
 
Cheers,
Bart

[eleanorbrown]

I have spent the entire day sitting at my Mac Pro, 9880 and 7800 printers (also have a 7900 but Imageprint 7 isn't compatible with that printer).  I have been printing to all these printers through Lighroom 3 printer module ever since Lightroom 3 was released and I use the "canned "profiles.  I had printed through Imageprint 7 for many years but decided, for various reasons to print through Lightroom 3 (when it was released) instead.

Anyway,  After reading this thread I decided to make a concerted close comparison of identical files printed through Lightroom and canned profiles and imageprint custom profiles on both my 7800 and 9880 printers using Epson Exhibition Fiber and Epson Hot Press Bright.  I have stared at the prints in all sorts of light and under some magnification.  My prints from Lightroom/Epson driver and Imageprint) have been virtually identical or so close it's splitting hairs. Just my 2 cents. Eleanor

[ErikKaffehr]

Eleanor,

Thanks for your efforts and also for sharing your findings!

Best regards
Erik

I have spent the entire day sitting at my Mac Pro, 9880 and 7800 printers (also have a 7900 but Imageprint 7 isn't compatible with that printer).  I have been printing to all these printers through Lighroom 3 printer module ever since Lightroom 3 was released and I use the "canned "profiles.  I had printed through Imageprint 7 for many years but decided, for various reasons to print through Lightroom 3 (when it was released) instead.

Anyway,  After reading this thread I decided to make a concerted close comparison of identical files printed through Lightroom and canned profiles and imageprint custom profiles on both my 7800 and 9880 printers using Epson Exhibition Fiber and Epson Hot Press Bright.  I have stared at the prints in all sorts of light and under some magnification.  My prints from Lightroom/Epson driver and Imageprint) have been virtually identical or so close it's splitting hairs. Just my 2 cents. Eleanor

[eleanorbrown]

Eric another thing I might mention...the advanced black and white in the epson driver is second to none in my opinion....the toning is gorgeous and far superior to Imagrprint toning in the warm spectrum in my opinion.  That's one reason I began printing through LR3 along with the print layout capabilities.
Eleanor

Eleanor,

Thanks for your efforts and also for sharing your findings!

Best regards
Erik

[Sven W]

Eric another thing I might mention...the advanced black and white in the epson driver is second to none in my opinion....the toning is gorgeous and far superior to Imagrprint toning in the warm spectrum in my opinion.  That's one reason I began printing through LR3 along with the print layout capabilities.
Eleanor

How do you make a split tone with ABW?

/Sven

[John R Smith]

How do you make a split tone with ABW?

/Sven

Sven

You can't. The toning Eleanor was referring to is an all-over warm or cool tone that you can apply in the ABW panel. To do split tone you have to print as an RGB colour image via ICM. However, on good paper (like Harman Glossy FB Al warmtone) a slightly warm ABW print looks remarkably similar to a conventional split tone, with similar slightly cool shadows and warm highlights.

John

[Sven W]

John, I know.....my question was sort of ironic, because I've never seen any more effective toning-tool than ImagePrint's on "true" bw. Not the RGB way.

/Sven

[John R Smith]

John, I know.....my question was sort of ironic, because I've never seen any more effective toning-tool than ImagePrint's on "true" bw. Not the RGB way.

/Sven

Sven

Sorry I missed the irony. However, I would very much respect Eleanor's opinion, and if she prefers Epson's ABW to ImagePrint then I would certainly take notice of that viewpoint.

John

[Sven W]

Of course I respect her opinion, but I don't agree and think she is wrong. I have been involved with LFP in more than ten years
and working with IP since 2003, and still can't find any "better" b/w solution. And I have tested nearly all of them.

Isn't the thread "ImagePrint vs QImage vs Mac vs Win vs printdriver +abw"?
Which is the best?

/Sven

[Ernst Dinkla]

The HP Z3100/Z3200 toning tools in B&W mode are not bad either. Highlight, midtone, shadows split if needed. I prefer  the RGB route though: similar use of monochrome inks with the Z models in color and B&W mode, preview that is telling more, a file that is archived with the split tones so you do not have to save the toner settings (which is possible though in the driver as a printing shortcut).


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[eronald]

Always so nice, Jeff. Maybe these bugs will bite certain people and not others, just like the bedbugs in your guesthouse  



Edmund

You trying to be provocative or do you really NOT have a friggin' clue?

I have no problem printing from either LR 3 or PS CS5 on Mac running 10.6.4. Yes, I use the Eric Chan work-around to print targets...(not that I have to re-profile Epson papers mind you, just non-Epson papers).

So, Edmund, you need some help printing?

You could hire me (well, naw, you couldn't afford me cause I would charge so much to put up with your pissant attitude)

[madmanchan]

The edge of a custom RIP (e.g., ImagePrint) generally comes not from the ICC color profiles, but from the substitute ink mixing algorithms and the way the ink droplets are placed (in other words, the mechanics of the process). Of course, the profiles have to be solid to realize the benefits.

To be really clear: There are some (many) types of images where you're going to see minimal difference. Once you start pushing gamut boundaries on a particular surface type, that's when differences (e.g., graininess or lack thereof as you progress from one hue to another) tend to be more apparent, and even then sometimes only on close inspection. I think this is an indication of how good the makers' own drivers have become.

[eleanorbrown]

Sven, Here,s my thinking about about the toning in Imagrprint....I used their toning for many many years and, I COULD BE WRONG....but... It was my understanding the the original toning choice for inks for WARM tones avoided using a lot of yellow ink .  I was never able to get the warm tones I prefer because of lack of yellow ink usage. Metamerism, while in the past it was a major concern, is a non issue in the inks today with yellow ink..... In Lightroom 3 using advanced black and white toning choices...ie...15/30, their canned warm and sepia settings and other custom settings if mine, I can get the warm tones I like...simple as that.. Eleanor

How do you make a split tone with ABW?

/Sven

[John R Smith]

I think that a lot of folks around here take little account of the fact that it is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate choice to prefer one thing over another thing, even when our preference is demonstrably technically inferior, simply because we like it. For example, I really like the look of pictures from my old CZ 60mm lens, even though its MTF charts are grim. And I have tried the B/W output from HP printers, but hated it, because to me it just looked very clinical and somehow plastic. So I can quite see that someone might prefer the Epson ABW output to ImagePrint, even though IP might be technically superior.

John