fuji S2 Pro

[Lisa Nikodym]

[font color=\'#000000\']Read the first page of the review at...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/

All is explained.

Lisa[/font]

[Quentin]

[font color=\'#000000\']This is all old news.  The Fuji has approx 6 megapixels, but arranges the photosites in such a way that it is more effectively able to "guess" the information between the sites, and thus interpolates up to 12mp.  It is a clever system and one that sqeezes the most data from those 6mp.

By most peoples estimation, Fuji's "Super CCD" system does result in more resolution than a standard 6mp sensor - say, roughly equivalent to an 8mp or maybe 9mp sensor.  But it is not going to have quite the resolving power of a true 11 or 12mp sensor.

Quentin[/font]

[BJL]

[font color=\'#000000\']The photo-sites of the Fuji SuperCCD design are aligned along diagonals, while standard photographic file formats need pixels lined up in horizontal and vertical lines. To convert to such a "rank and file" format without losing data, Fuji has to compute interpolated pixel values at each gap between photosites, as well as interpolating to pixels located at each photosite.

It is as if the photosites were centred on each white square of a chess board (poking out into neighboring black squares), but pixel output must be at all squares.


It would be nice to see a move from using often incomparable pixel counts towards more professional measurements of how much detail sensors can record; maybe line pairs per picture height at 50% MTF.[/font]

[Quentin]

[font color=\'#000000\']Seems to me the design of the S3 sensor is one of the bravest decisions by any DSLR manufacturer.  

The camera really does have 12mp, but with the high and low sensitivity sensors combined, only 6 mp uninterpolated real resolution.  Now, if Fuji can put 12mp worth of sensors on an APX sized chip, they could presumably have used those extra sensors to make the S3 a true 12mp DSLR - and then using the super CCD design, they could have boasted a 24mp output.

So, going afer other aspects of image quality, namely increased dynamic range and possibly lower noise, Fuji have for the moment gone is a completely different direction from all other megapixel-chasing DSLR designs.  My guess is that image quality will be superb, but limited slightly by a lack in ultimate resolution.

Quentin[/font]

[Hank]

[font color=\'#000000\']Hey Quadra,

Sounds like we are reading off the same page in many respects.  My point is that the fixes for our issues would seem so basic (and they are so universal among S2 users) that you would think they would be among the features listed in the S3 dspec sheets.  I'm sure my frustration is oozing out, but I'm sceptical about their inclusion in the S3 until proven wrong.

As for the 24-120VR, you have nailed it.  I bought one because I missed the Canon 28-135 I parted with when I dumped that line.  I got to use it for about two days before my wife confiscated it for her own use.  In short order we owned two, and I'll probably pick up two more for our staff.  It gives superb results, and the zoom range is just about ideal for most of our shoots.  It has become our standard lens in the studio and on location.[/font]

[framah]

[font color=\'#000000\']Here's a question for anyone out there...  The Fuji S2 Pro specs state the number of "effective pixels" of 6.17 and the number of  "recorded pixels" of 12.1...those being 6m @ 3024x2016,  3.5m @ 2304x1536,   and 1.3m @ 1440x960.  What sort of smoke and mirrors is this??  I had someone yesterday tell me he had a Fuji cmaera with 12 megapixels. The way he said it sounded as tho he was comparing it to the Canon 1DS.  Didn't sound right so I looked the camera up and found this info.  I appreciate any enlightenment on this.    [/font]

[framah]

[font color=\'#000000\']Went to that site and I still have no idea what they (or you) are talking about. From what I saw, nothing is explained. It shows a diagram of 2 different types of sensors but gives absolutely no explanation as to what it is all about. As best as I can figure, this is nothing more than a 6.1 megapixel camera and as such gives only a 6.1 mp image not a 12mp image. If you understand what it is all about, please explain. It seems that Fuji is counting on the fact that alot of people don't fully understand this stuff to get you to think that this camera is better than Canons 1Ds. Which it isn't in my opinion.    [/font]

[framah]

[font color=\'#000000\']Thanks, Quentin. Not being interested in buying a Fuji, I didn't know about this. Your explaination clears it up for me. I can now sleep soundly with my 1Ds safely by my side.   :p[/font]

[Quadra950]

[font color=\'#000000\']The upcoming S3 has opened up this can of worms again.  And a whole second can with claims of increased dynamic range and reduced noise.  I'm really looking forward to reading a some hands on reviews.  If Fuji got the AF and metering issues worked out, the S3 could prove to be a very nice "poor man's" 1Ds.  On the DPreview forum a member claimed the list price in Japan is $2600 USD.  If true and the US version streets for $1800 to $2000, it could do quite well - assuming of course it performs as claimed.[/font]

[Hank]

[font color=\'#000000\']We're watching the S3 release very carefully, having extensive experience in our business with several S2's.  Irrespective of how pixels are counted or whether interpollation is involved (and I could care less on either count), the S2 has given sterling image quality for us through enlargements up to 24"x36".  Our Mamiya 645's have been reduced to dust collectors by the S2, as a matter of fact.

Quite frankly, Fuji had better hold the price of the S3 down to the level of the S2 if the only improvements are in the sensor.  I am not convinced that any "improvements" in sensor or DR over what we are experiencing with the S2 will justify any extra expense.  Long-time clients intimately familiar with our products were thrilled with the "look" of images taken with the S2 compared to the 645, and it's hard to imagine that the S3 will show that marked an improvement in "look" over images from the S2.  Time and tests will tell.

Our issues with the S2 revolve around its small buffer, slow fps, and slow previews due to the lack of small jpegs for review on the LCD.  If Fuji doesn't address those issues with the S3, the acceptible price point at which we will purchase it will be set by the price of used S2's.  I will be much more inclined to harvest pristine S2's after the price drop, rather than spend extra for features that won't show up in our ease of use or income stream.[/font]

[Quadra950]

[font color=\'#000000\']I thought S3 was based a new body (compared to the S2) borrrowed from Nikon?  With it supposedly new AF and metering too?

As for buffer and preview performance, I would think Fuji would update that to at mid-range performance.  Those electronics seem like simple "no brainers".

The S3 looks very attractive on paper; S2 had resolution comparable to 8MP and low noise (at lower ISOs), so more dynamic range and lower noise (again).  I really hope it lives up to the hype.

The S3 w/ a Nikon 24-120 VR sounds like a great walk around combo.  I currently use a 10D w/ 28-135 IS, 50mm 1.4 & 75-300mm.  All okay lenses, but nothing I would miss.  And Nikon has equivalents.  Actually, the 24-120 on 1.5x body would much more useful for me - it's almost 9mm wider than 28-135 IS on a 1.6x body.  

Another reason why I'm being to have Nikon preference is their lens line-up seems more robust on the wide end when considering the 1.5x body.  But I'm guessing the D2H's replacement will be $3k+, so if Fuji keeps the S3 at $2k street or less, then it's an easy choice.[/font]