Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?

[uaiomex]

And double the price. :-(
I knew already about this back. Actually I commented it before to Yair while asking him about the possibility of Leaf making this type of back with a cheaper 48X36 sensor competitve to Hassie CFV39 but never got any response. So I asume 2 things: There are no plans. because is not fisible or it is Leaf's best kept secret! :-)
Best regards
Eduardo

 

You mean like an Leaf Aptus-II 10R in a V mount which has an internally rotating sensor? You can buy one today :-).

Though its 56 megapixels, not 39 :-/.


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[Nick Rains]

I've been trying to get hold of a Pentax but the distributors have not been forthcoming with one. I'll keep trying.

[sdai]

There are tons of 645D samples here:

http://ganref.jp/items/camera/pentax/1865/photo

[Guy Mancuso]

Sure, the Pentax is not a solution for you if you need thethering, leaf shutters, to be able to use the back on a view camera or T/S lenses.

Other than that it appears to be to be equal or superior to anything else 40MP class MF out there, and that would include image quality. There is a huge difference between Mamiya and Pentax here, Pentax has a lot of experience in digital (read tens of M$ of investement over 10+ years and very skilled engineers inhouse in a job market place where there are many more skilled engineers) and is able to amortize their digital research over many more bodies. They are also part of the powerful Hoya group known for its leadinf research in optics. If the 645D proves to be a commercial succes (they are off with a very good start), Hoya will GO more investements targetting the MF market.

All that being considered, It would in fact be surprising if the MF copanes were able to keep up with them in image quality giving the same sensor is used.

Cheers,
Bernard

 I would be real careful of the word superior. Heard the same words about the S2 and sorry superior is not the word I would even say anywhere about it and I did a nice long test with it. Also please get the thoughts of the ugly Mamiya off your brain. It is NOT the case at all just grab a few D lenses and actually go out and shoot them.
Sorry Bernard the Pentax is completely unproven and untested against anything so far. Maybe hold onto those comments for a time until someone actually puts this in use with comparable product. Heard the same hype from Leica. Marketing does not make images

[Nick Rains]

There are tons of 645D samples here:

http://ganref.jp/items/camera/pentax/1865/photo

Unless I am missing something these are all 3000px wide samples, not full res and therefore meaningless. Much like the samples posted on the GetDPI forum - all hand held! Waste of time.

[sdai]

Unless I am missing something these are all 3000px wide samples, not full res and therefore meaningless. Much like the samples posted on the GetDPI forum - all hand held! Waste of time.

I don't know if you've seen these before ... but here are some full size jpegs either straight from camera or converted from ACR.

http://ganref.jp/items/camera/pentax/1865

[sdai]

Sorry Bernard the Pentax is completely unproven and untested against anything so far. Maybe hold onto those comments for a time until someone actually puts this in use with comparable product. Heard the same hype from Leica. Marketing does not make images

You need to be more specific, Guy ... when it comes to camera, the Pentax is lightyears ahead of Leica, Hassy or Mamiya - it is really a shame that none of them can manage more than ONE AF point in AD2010

[aaron]

I would be real careful of the word superior. Heard the same words about the S2 and sorry superior is not the word I would even say anywhere about it and I did a nice long test with it. Also please get the thoughts of the ugly Mamiya off your brain. It is NOT the case at all just grab a few D lenses and actually go out and shoot them.
Sorry Bernard the Pentax is completely unproven and untested against anything so far. Maybe hold onto those comments for a time until someone actually puts this in use with comparable product. Heard the same hype from Leica. Marketing does not make images

Guy, on a few occasions you have commented that the Pentax is a possible stepping stone to a superior mfdb like a PhaseOne- always implying of its inferiority to the current established options.
Since as you say the Pentax is 'completely unproven', i believe you are also guilty of making premature conclusions.

[JonathanBenoit]

Come on MF digital newbies. I know you are excited about the possibilities, but maybe you should wait til you can put one in your hands before you make outrageous statements.

[Guy Mancuso]

Well that could be said sure but Pentax has not done MF digital before either so which way should we lean better than anything out there. Leica said that too and it is not the case. Superior is a really bad word to use , I never use that in comparing any product. Better than more feature laden or better software packages are a much better way to describe things. People hang on every word and superior is very misleading. Phase is not superior to anything either it is better than some equal to others same with Hassy. Pentax is a great stepping stone to MF but without testing with comparable cams of the same sensors and sizing than it really is a non factor until it is proven to be equal too or better than. I'm not saying it is or it is not but lets stop putting the chicken before the egg. It's a very dangerous road and as a reviewer myself i am really carefully on these type of words because readers can get bad data and i hate bad data.

Also you said to the current established options which is a good way to say Phase and Hassy. Pentax and Leica have a long way to go here in regards to building a complete system of parts and software and really until that comes about it is less proven as a system. We always talk about buying this cam or that cam. What we really should be saying is buying this system or that system. A camera is only one piece of a system which has many parts to it. BTW hate that word inferior also. LOL

Reality is once you hit the MF sector all these cams can produce a good image. What some are lacking are complete systems , software and things of this nature and until they build that up than we really should be careful how we label things. The Pentax looks good actually it looks really good from my seat but until it gets under the microscope and in the field it simply is not a proven system and that is not a dig but reality. I honestly think it will be good and good for the market but we have to watch our enthusiasm too just like the S2 and it's Leica fans. It simply has some shortcomings and these things like the Pentax and Leica need to age some. Does not mean they are bad just that it will take time and yes it will take a lot of time to the established old dogs sitting on the porch like Hassy and Phase. Both with great software , lenses, accessories, product support and service and also well established in the rental markets. Not to mention Leaf and Sinar in this which i always forget to do.

Honestly I'm not making any premature conclusions but saying just hold on lets get these things in the field under the microscope and see what is going on before we start declaring anything better than or anything at all. End of the day it is the brain behind the viewfinder that ultimately counts but the tools we work with are important in function and making life easier to work with. Which tools are better at that are really individual decisions all we can do is figure out what works well and what does not.

[BernardLanguillier]

Come on MF digital newbies. I know you are excited about the possibilities, but maybe you should wait til you can put one in your hands before you make outrageous statements.

Yep, already played with one actually. In terms of usability/please of usage it is in the same class as a high end DSLR. I have not found the time to shoot with one yet unfortunately.

Anyway, I won't buy one for various reasons, the main one being the lack of live view, but it would clearly be the one for my outdoor usage if I were to invest into MF. Frankly speaking, the battery issue hold in cold weather is enough to make the difference for me.

When you camp at -15C for 2 nights in a row these things matter.

Cheers,
Bernard

[peterurban]

... Regarding how we spend our money....we are all different. My Dad died when I was three. I went to Drexel University for 12 years at night to earn BS and MS degrees. My wife and I are proud of the fact that we raised three sons, and financed 7 college degrees for our family. I am 73 years old....guess what? It's my time to buy my toys. 
Best to all....
Dave
www.modernpictorials.comRob You are absolutely right in my case. I don't need a MF digital

Good for you Dave! We've got to do want we are passionate about while we still can do it. While retirement planning is important it is also critical to contemplate if a long boring live with a perfectly save retirement is worth living. For some it is and for others it isn't. Not even thinking about the possibility of a bus coming along tomorrow and ending the wait for your passion in the most uncomfortable way - and forever.

Just sayin.

[JonathanBenoit]

Yep, already played with one actually. In terms of usability/please of usage it is in the same class as a high end DSLR. I have not found the time to shoot with one yet unfortunately.

Anyway, I won't buy one for various reasons, the main one being the lack of live view, but it would clearly be the one for my outdoor usage if I were to invest into MF. Frankly speaking, the battery issue hold in cold weather is enough to make the difference for me.

When you camp at -15C for 2 nights in a row these things matter.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard,

It's odd that you are talking up this camera when you have no interest in buying it because it doesn't have the specs you need. It limits you for wide angle because of the sensor size. Who knows how it performs for long exposure. The fact that it might have a better AF is not a selling point for a landscape photographer.
Maybe I am missing something...

[peterurban]

Are there any resolution / quality tests / comparisons available on the Pentax MF lenses?

BTW Here are a view videos about the camera that I found online ...

Photo show rep presenting the cam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF310u4vmts 2.23min

Someone handling the cam on the show floor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLddJ4_c88&feature=related 59sec

In french http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4ul6aSXf28&feature=related 3.19min

[BernardLanguillier]

It's odd that you are talking up this camera when you have no interest in buying it because it doesn't have the specs you need. It limits you for wide angle because of the sensor size. Who knows how it performs for long exposure. The fact that it might have a better AF is not a selling point for a landscape photographer.
Maybe I am missing something...

Hey Jonathan,

Me being not interested in buying a camera at this point of time doesn't mean I am not interested in this camera. :-) The 645D is very interesting, in itself and as the first of Pentax digital MF cameras. I would probably buy the Pentax if:
- I was not in the middle of a large project that limits my ability to spend cash on items that I don't absolutely need,
- It had live view, the lack thereof makes it less useful than my current camera in actual shooting situations.

Other than that it is IMHO the closest thing to the perfect landscape camera. I would not be impacted by the temporary lack of wide since 100% of my production wide imagea are stitches.

As far as long exposures go, it doesn't appear to be a problem from echoes I have heard in Japan, but this point might need doule checking indeed.

I guess that what I am telling you is that I'll probably line up to get one of the 645D MKII when it does offer live view.

Cheers,
Bernard

[tsjanik]

Are there any resolution / quality tests / comparisons available on the Pentax MF lenses?

There aren't many that I'm aware of which is not too surprising since Pentax MF had long been given up as dead.  Here's one concerning the 645 35mm FA:

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax645_fa35mm.html

The 35mm FA is a difficult lens to find as many have been adapted for use on DSLRs.

The same site makes the following statement about using Pentax 645 lenses on a Canon body using a Zörk  adapter (of course he was selling the lenses, so a grain of salt is recommended).
 
“This is simply the best way to obtain maximum shift movements on a Canon digital body. The Zörk Panoramic Shift Adaptor permits movements of up to 22mm, and is the only system designed for DSLRs to accommodate parallax-free stitching. The lenses I'm selling with it have been chery-picked for ultimate performance: the Pentax FA35 is just the greatest medium format retrofocus wide angle ever. The SMC-A 55mm f2.8 is a cracking manual focus Pentax 645 lens that outperforms the Hasselblad 50mm CF. And the butter smooth manual focus 150mm f3.5 is even better at distance than the Hasselblad, Mamiya and Pentax Macro 120mm lenses. In my opinion (and that of Zörk in Germany), the Pentax 645 range is the best array of MF lenses ever, with a beautiful, Zeiss-like drawing style and bottomless resolution. Until a digital Pentax 645 option arrives, this remains the best way to unlock that potential in the digital realm"

The site has an interesting, if unrelated, discussion of adapting a number of lenses to Canon bodies:
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/compatible.html

FWIW, my personal experience with about 20 Pentax MF lenses is that there are no dogs and some are outstanding.  The 645 35mm and 120 macro are superb as are the 67 300mm ED, 400mm ED and the 55-100mm zoom.  Of the lenses I’ve used, the only one with serious shortcomings is the 67 35mm fisheye.

[MattBeardsley]

In case it's interesting, I posted a blog a couple weeks ago discussing $10K MF options...  The Hasselblad H3DII-31 is currently the best MF deal around.  It's an awesome machine.  I've got an H4D-40 in the studio this week for testing, it sells for around $20k, and is only incrementally improved from the H3DII-31.  IMHO, the historically low "Hassy" buy in with the H3DII makes the D3X a hard sell.. (and I Love Nikon!)

http://mattbeardsleyblog.com/2010/08/12/entry-level-digital-medium-format-and-the-10k-hasselblad-h3dii-31/

[peterurban]

Maybe Pentax should dig out some of their old commercials like this one ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gWDewkkkAI

;-)

[BrendanStewart]

Wow that is old. ^

Yeah i have to agree with Matt, i'm very happy with the H3DII-31. That along with Phocus makes for a great system. I just don't see what i'm missing out on with the 645D. Not saying there isn't anything, but nothing is sticking out at me.

[aaron]

Wow that is old. ^

Yeah i have to agree with Matt, i'm very happy with the H3DII-31. That along with Phocus makes for a great system. I just don't see what i'm missing out on with the 645D. Not saying there isn't anything, but nothing is sticking out at me.

Yes the H3DII-31 is a fine camera but it may be stating the obvious to say that the 645d is more comparable to the H4D-40 sensor wise.
Your also missing out on the one thing that all MFD users complain about- the lac of a decent rear display. The one on the H3dII series is not a strong point. Other than that you have the weather sealing and of course more affordable lenses, all of which may not be relevant to some users.