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Author Topic: Considering a Canon iPF6300  (Read 9718 times)

Richard Favinger Jr

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« on: August 06, 2010, 03:12:24 am »

Hi all...
I'm in the market for a replacement to my Epson 3800... It has suffered a major clog (or something) and no longer prints black. I've tried every thing I can think of, and wasted over $400 in inks. I'm more then finished with this printer unless some one can give major suggestions.

Any way... I'm considering an upgrade to the Canon iPF6300. I've read all the major reviews and the iPF Wiki. And it all looks great. But I do have something I hope some one can clear up.

Ink usage during "Sleep" or Cleaning Cycles after wake/shutdown. I do print seasonally. The printer will run, making prints for a few months out of the year during summer sports season. But sit idle during the winter months. I am concerned about ink waste. Something I'm not sure if the Epson 3800 preformed with out my knowledge or not? I know it went threw a few "cycles" or something after long sleeps. But if it affected my ink levels I really don't know. - Clogging really was not an issue... until this month. It was my first MAJOR clog in nearly 3 years of use.

* I don't really want a printer that will "bleed" ink while sitting for a week or two. (Or after 4 months in winter) Will this be an issue?
* Also what is the minimum feed length? I do get a lot of orders for 5x7's or 8x10's I'd like to lay out.
* What is the smallest paper that can feed? Would 2x 5x7 on 8.5x11 be a problem?
* Am I going to choke, if I happen to get that order for one 5x7 and have to feed it?  

The same thoughts apply for the Canon iPF5100 (Also a consideration)... Any reasons NOT to get a 24" printer?
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Rich

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 10:02:00 am »

All pigment based inkjet printers suffer from the same issues with clogging. They either need to be used, or periodically cleaned (as you've discovered with your Epson) otherwise you'll get clogs. Ink usage was already minimal compared to the competition with the x100 series and Canon has even improved upon that with the x300 series.

Cheers, Joe
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JeffKohn

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 10:32:24 am »

The preventative cleanings on the 6300 use very little ink. When I"m doing periodic printing where I might not print for a couple of weeks, I still leave it on because the small amount of ink used for these preventative cleanings is less than the "big" cleaning that will be done when it's been off for a while. That said, I think there's probably a break-even point somewhere, and if you know you're not going to be printing for 4 mounts it may be best to turn it off.

In my experience Epsons waste more ink than Canons for cleaning, so if that is the only thing holding you back I say go for it.
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Jeff Kohn
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peninsula

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 11:28:58 am »

Hi Richard,

You posed an excellent question regarding ink usage. I have the iPF8300. Tech support at ColorHQ has been outstanding, so I posed the following question to them regarding the choice of shutting down the printer verses letting it go into sleep mode.

Quote
Statement from one poster: Ink usage during "Sleep" or Cleaning Cycles after wake/shutdown. I do print seasonally. The printer will run, making prints for a few months out of the year during summer sports season. But sit idle during the winter months. I am concerned about ink waste. Something I'm not sure if the Epson 3800 preformed with out my knowledge or not? I know it went threw a few "cycles" or something after long sleeps.


One reply from another:

The preventative cleanings on the 6300 use very little ink. When I"m doing periodic printing where I might not print for a couple of weeks, I still leave it on because the small amount of ink used for these preventative cleanings is less than the "big" cleaning that will be done when it's been off for a while. That said, I think there's probably a break-even point somewhere, and if you know you're not going to be printing for 4 mounts it may be best to turn it off.

My Question to you:

Depending on my schedule, my printer will be idle from 2 days to 2 weeks. At what point, in terms of time duration, is it going to be better to shut it "off" verses letting the printer go into the "sleep mode"? I'm interested in conserving ink as well as minimizing the development of clogs.

The answer I received follows:

Quote
This is such a debatable topic Greg.  My feeling is if you will not use it for two weeks turn it off. If it is going to be less than a week – leave it on.  Without testing weights of the individual ink tanks in both scenarios it is really hard to say what is the best method.  Definitely if it is not going to be used for more than two weeks definitely turn it off.  Losing a few nozzles out of 2500/per tank from it being off and those nozzles not being able to be cleaned when you turn it on again is not a big deal.

I hope this helps, Greg
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Richard Favinger Jr

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 06:02:23 pm »

Let me make this simple...
Did the Epson 3800 waste the same amount of ink as the iPF5100 / iPF6300, with out my knowledge.
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Rich

peninsula

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 07:02:51 pm »

Quote from: RichardFavingerJr
Let me make this simple...
Did the Epson 3800 waste the same amount of ink as the iPF5100 / iPF6300, with out my knowledge.


My understanding is the Canon iPF printers waste the least amount of ink when compared to the equivalent HP or Epson model (e.g., the Epson 3800 will waste more ink than the iPF 5100). Regardless of the make, the larger the printer, the more ink it will waste. For example, the iPF 8300 uses 20% of its inks during initial startup to fill all the hose lines. The 6300 will not use near as much to do the same.
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Geoff Wittig

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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 09:05:05 am »

Quote from: RichardFavingerJr
Hi all...
I'm in the market for a replacement to my Epson 3800... It has suffered a major clog (or something) and no longer prints black. I've tried every thing I can think of, and wasted over $400 in inks. I'm more then finished with this printer unless some one can give major suggestions.

Any way... I'm considering an upgrade to the Canon iPF6300. I've read all the major reviews and the iPF Wiki. And it all looks great. But I do have something I hope some one can clear up.

Ink usage during "Sleep" or Cleaning Cycles after wake/shutdown. I do print seasonally. The printer will run, making prints for a few months out of the year during summer sports season. But sit idle during the winter months. I am concerned about ink waste. Something I'm not sure if the Epson 3800 preformed with out my knowledge or not? I know it went threw a few "cycles" or something after long sleeps. But if it affected my ink levels I really don't know. - Clogging really was not an issue... until this month. It was my first MAJOR clog in nearly 3 years of use.

* I don't really want a printer that will "bleed" ink while sitting for a week or two. (Or after 4 months in winter) Will this be an issue?
* Also what is the minimum feed length? I do get a lot of orders for 5x7's or 8x10's I'd like to lay out.
* What is the smallest paper that can feed? Would 2x 5x7 on 8.5x11 be a problem?
* Am I going to choke, if I happen to get that order for one 5x7 and have to feed it?  

The same thoughts apply for the Canon iPF5100 (Also a consideration)... Any reasons NOT to get a 24" printer?

First, when it comes to leaving the printer on all the time so it can perform automated self-diagnostics and head cleaning, there's a big difference between the Epson printers on one side, and Canon and HP on the other. Epson uses Piezo heads; they contain tiny diaphragms that change dimensions when a tiny current passes through them, causing them to 'pop', ejecting ink out onto the paper. They have relatively fewer but larger individual 'jets' per head, so a single clogged jet can show up as banding. HP and Canon instead use a heat-based technology, where current generates heat producing a tiny bubble that 'pops' ink out of the jet. They have lots more jets per head, of much smaller size. Their automated maintenance systems periodically fire just a few tiny picoliter-sized droplets from each jet, and clean only the sections that are misfiring. When a jet becomes clogged beyond the ability of a cleaning cycle to clear it, the jet is 'mapped out' and replaced by another by the printer's logic. You may eventually run out of working jets, but I used an HP Z3100 for more than 3 years and thousands of prints with the original heads, and never ran out of jets. And you can replace the printheads on the HP and Canon printers yourself in just a few minutes. With the Epsons it's a service call and well over $1,000 to replace one of the heads.

Each system has its pros and cons. The Epson printers use more ink per square foot of print- a lot more- and they also waste a vastly greater amount of ink on cleaning cycles. You can almost watch the ink levels in the carts drop as you run repeated power cleaning cycles. By contrast the Canon and HP printers use almost no ink at all for routine self-maintenance. I never saw any appreciable drop in ink levels with a Z3100 left on for months, and I rarely had to do any manually selected cleaning cycles. Epsons are another story entirely; some folks have fairly good experiences with few clogs, others are plagued by repeated clogs that waste huge quantities of ink. I had an Epson 7600 which had few clogs, but it did require printing at least every couple of weeks or it would require a cleaning cycle or two. It is apparently an idiosyncratic problem that depends a lot on local environmental conditions like humidity or dust; some folks are tormented and others have few problems.

Most all of the 24" printers can print on 8.5x11" paper, but they really can't handle anything smaller. For 5x7" prints it makes sense to use 8.5x11" sheets with several images per page, or waste a bit of paper. They really should be seen as roll-paper printers that can print on sheets when required. Roll paper is cheaper and easier to handle, as long as you have something to de-curl prints toward the end of the roll.

I've owned a Canon iPF6300 for about two months, and it's terrific. Extremely frugal with ink, a straightforward and logical driver, relatively simple set-up, excellent color gamut and very good black & white mode. Sheet paper handling isn't quite as smooth as the Epsons, but much better than the HP Z3100. It's also extremely fast; even a 24x36" print pops out into the basket before I've had time to get coffee. The 'media configuration tool' permits you to experiment endlessly with variables like inkload, drying time, head height and vacuum strength for 3rd party papers, but I've chosen instead to standardize on just a few papers that serve my needs. The canned profiles from Hahnemuhle for their papers have worked extremely well; IMHO modern printers are so well standardized once you run the calibration step that custom profiles are no longer mandatory for excellent output.

My take on wide format printer choice is that the Epsons are great if you need third-party support, plan to use a RIP, and print all the time so clogs have less opportunity to develop. They excel at paper handling, and are supported by everyone. On the other hand, they chug ink like a drunken sailor, and the 7900 generation appears to have some issues with quality control and automated maintenance routines. My HP Z3100 was always pretty finicky, the driver was squirrely and paper handling a pain; but the Z printers are still the best choice if you're mostly doing black & white. They have hands-down the best d-max on both matte cotton rag and semigloss/baryta papers, totally neutral grey/black inks, the best print longevity, and a very good BW driver mode. On the other hand, even with the Z3200 the gamut is the smallest, especially in the red/oranges. Canon's iPF6300 matches the fine detail and huge gamut of the 7900, and it's far better in terms of ink economy and avoiding clogs. On the other hand, third-party support is much less, so if you need a RIP or want canned profiles for exotic papers, you'll have fewer choices.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 09:08:28 am by Geoff Wittig »
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Richard Favinger Jr

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2010, 09:24:32 pm »

As to reply my own questions with some research:
* Also what is the minimum feed length? I do get a lot of orders for 5x7's or 8x10's I'd like to lay out.
* What is the smallest paper that can feed? Would 2x 5x7 on 8.5x11 be a problem?
Minimum feed length for roll paper is 8-inchses (says the specs)

I'm a bit perplexed at the "Borderless Printing" features of this printer when it also says a minimum border of 5mm? I miss something?

Thank you all for the help I'm really nailing this down.
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Rich

Rob Reiter

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 12:12:55 pm »

Quote from: RichardFavingerJr
As to reply my own questions with some research:
* Also what is the minimum feed length? I do get a lot of orders for 5x7's or 8x10's I'd like to lay out.
* What is the smallest paper that can feed? Would 2x 5x7 on 8.5x11 be a problem?
Minimum feed length for roll paper is 8-inchses (says the specs)

I'm a bit perplexed at the "Borderless Printing" features of this printer when it also says a minimum border of 5mm? I miss something?

Thank you all for the help I'm really nailing this down.


On my 8300 minimum sheet paper size is about 8" square. The leading edge and both sides have a .2" non-printable border and a one inch unprintable border on the trailing edge. When not printing in "borderless" mode, the first three restrictions also apply on roll paper, but, obviously, not the last. The only time I have a problem with manually feeding in sheets is with longer pieces, where I get a "Paper askew" error. This can be avoided by guiding the sheet in with a finger on each side to assure it gets taken up without skewing. Really not a problem after you've tried it a few times.

After 6 years of Epson printers (9600 and 9800) I can say I've truly enjoyed using the Canon 8100 and 8300. While I have occasional need of a sheet feeder no large roll printer offers that option.
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Pete Berry

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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 01:07:50 pm »

Quote from: RichardFavingerJr
I'm a bit perplexed at the "Borderless Printing" features of this printer when it also says a minimum border of 5mm? I miss something?


The confusion about borderless printing is that this mode is suported only by the roll feed media source - and you do get a true borderless print if you set it up properly.

Pete
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 10:31:36 pm by Pete Berry »
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keith_cooper

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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 04:46:39 am »

Small sheets (A4) worked fine when I recently tested the 6300.

Best to take care when setting margin sizes, as I discovered when first trying this (look carefully at the LH print and you can see missing bits)


This from my iPF6300 review
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JeffKohn

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 09:37:36 am »

Quote from: RichardFavingerJr
* Also what is the minimum feed length? I do get a lot of orders for 5x7's or 8x10's I'd like to lay out.
For roll paper there's no real minimum. I think the minimum page length in the driver might be something like 8", but there's an option to conserve paper for roll printing that essentially allows shorter page lengths by cutting so that there's no trailing blank paper.

Quote
* What is the smallest paper that can feed? Would 2x 5x7 on 8.5x11 be a problem?
Smallest I've tried is 8.5x11 Letter.  You can get two 5x7's if using a media type that supports 3mm margins for the manual feed, which I believe includes most of the gloss and semi-gloss media types. Some of the fine-art matte media types don't support 3mm margins, and the trailing margin is about 1" on the bottom, which is pretty limiting since even an 8x10" won't quite fit.

One thing I've found is that printing on letter sheets can be a real problem with head strikes unless the paper is very flat.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 09:38:24 am by JeffKohn »
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Jeff Kohn
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Czornyj

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 04:57:41 am »

From Epson 7880/9880 user perespective - is there something annoying in this printer? I'm also concerned by the fact, that there's only 130ml ink available (I'm using 220ml inks for my Epson 7880). 8300 with bigger ink carts is just too large for my needs...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 04:59:23 am by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

peninsula

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Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 09:01:05 am »

Quote
One thing I've found is that printing on letter sheets can be a real problem with head strikes unless the paper is very flat.

I only printed on cut sheets for testing purposes on the 6100, otherwise, I always used roll paper due to head strikes being a frequent issue. It might be possible to stop this behavior with vacuum and head height adjustments, but I never went there.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 09:02:30 am by peninsula »
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Bullfrog

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Re: Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2010, 09:20:43 pm »

I bought the Canon IPF 6100 (24" wide format printer) in December 2009.  It has never clogged or given me any problem.

The main things I learned.

1.  Never turn it off!  It goes to sleep, and performs diagnostics on a schedule that I don't touch and don't care to.

2.  Don't use an extension cord.  Plug it directly into the outlet in the wall.

3.  I have printed over 30 large canvases (24x30 average size) and still have ink from the original printer - the only colour I have replaced is matte black (I use alot of black)

4.  As far as media treatments (borderless etc) there is a media guide that you can download from the Canon customer service website - go to Canon - pro printers - find IPF 6100 - look for Media Guide and download it.  The water - resistant canvas stock that I use cannot be printed borderless - but since I wrap them, it doesn't matter.

5.  I have it in my basement - I find the cooler temp seems to work well.  In the winter, I have a dehumidifier to keep the air from getting too dry. 


I cannot comment on other products - this is my first large format printer but so far, so good. 
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Richard Favinger Jr

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Re: Considering a Canon iPF6300
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2010, 07:39:51 pm »

Just wanted to update every one...
I did decide to get the iPF6300 it was delivered Friday by FedEx Freight. I bought it from IT Supplies for $2499 (before $700 mail-in rebate). Shipping was only $50 (for request of a lift-gate truck).

Along with the printer I ordered a 17" and 24" roll of Canon HW Luster 300gsm paper. My paper of choice was Red River Ultra Pro Satin 2.0 (when I used my Epson) and I may get it again after I play with the Canon paper for a bit. For the work I do I don't really need "Art" type papers, but am open to suggestions if any one has others to try.

If any one has any operating tips or suggestions, feel free to add them here.
Thank you for all your help.
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