HP's Large Format Photo Negatives application

[Haraldo]

DISCLAIMER: I consult for HP, and I helped bring some of the parties together to make this project happen.

If you haven't heard about this yet, HP just announced the "Large Format Photo Negatives" application for printing LF digital negatives and then using that neg for Alt Process (UV-based only) traditional (hand-made) prints. Basically, it's a free paper preset download for Z3200 (only) that defines the ink separation into mostly Green and some Black inks (only those two). It began as a "skunk work" in HP labs in Barcelona, and is now available to anyone (with a Z3200).

The first photographer to use it is Elliott Erwitt (!) of Magnum Photos, in conjunction with printmakers Gabe Greenberg (digital neg) and Arkady Lvov (platinum), all in NYC. I made a little step-by-step video about them and the process here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8HroH1Leio

And here's more info about it:
http://bit.ly/aQSNbt

This process was physically introduced at Arles festival in France, and the first North American demo of it (both neg and Erwitt prints) will be at PPE/NYC in October.

I'm not a Platinum expert, but I've seen enough of it, and these Erwitt prints are "OMG" beautiful.

Harald Johnson

[John Nollendorfs]

Harald:
Nicely produced vid on the process. I'm curious, why HP doesn't have the preset available on the Z3100 also? Any insights on that?

John Nollendorfs

[feppe]

Quick, someone tell Mr. Erwitt that he can't possibly enlarge a 35mm negative to such a huge print and expect presentable results. He should go and re-shoot it with (at least) a P30+. Also, the cropping leaves a lot to be desired.

An homage to this.

[francois]

Harald,
Thank for sharing!

[Haraldo]

@ JOHN: Nice to hear from you! And thanks. The video just sort of happened. I have been playing around with iMovie (Mac app) and thought: "Why not?" I'm not positive but I believe the roadblock with the Z3100 is that you cannot use the spectro and the "ZMeasurement" tool, which only exists on the Z3200. So cannot calibrate the system. However, I think you can do a workaround for the Z3100 to print the neg using an external spectro or densitometer to calibrate. Tell you what: I'll send this message to the inventor in Barcelona and ask him the question. Maybe I can convince him to come on here to explain better than me. [ADDED: forgot that he (like all of Europe) is on holiday until end of month; so he may not see message for about 10 days or so; but he'll evenually respond to me]

@ FEPPE: I was about to react until I saw your last sentence to the link at TOP that's hilarious. So should I NOT send your suggestion to Elliott? I know how to reach him. He might find it amusing (as he finds most things amusing). The biggest challenge will be in re-shooting Marilyn Monroe, I think.

@ FRANCOIS: je vous en prie! (you're welcome)

H

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Hey, Builder Levy has been working with those guys on that platinum process too...you can check-out his work as well:

www.BuilderLevy.com

rdc/nyc

[feppe]

@ FEPPE: I was about to react until I saw your last sentence to the link at TOP that's hilarious. So should I NOT send your suggestion to Elliott? I know how to reach him. He might find it amusing (as he finds most things amusing). The biggest challenge will be in re-shooting Marilyn Monroe, I think.

Yeah, it was just a stab at all the threads asking how big can I print which for some reason have recently been even more popular than usual

In fairness most responders do emphasize that how big you can go depends on the picture content. I still don't understand why even that should be a limiting factor; you're not supposed to look at big prints like that from short distances. Then again, some photographers seem to take to heart the saying that viewing distance is only limited by the size of one's nose...

Anyway, off-topic. But that's a fascinating process, I wonder what other hybrid processes inventive people come up with!

[dandeliondigital]

This is an exciting twist. As a (now-finally happy) HPZ 3100ps owner, I encourage HP to allow this to work with the 3100ps. It’s still got life (just turned 3) and we can’t afford the 3200 right now even though I’d love to get one, although a 3300 with an enhanced paper transport would be the best.

This brings to mind that I feel that the early adopters like me should receive a special consideration if HP wants us to upgrade sooner instead of playing the planned obsolescence game. As a reference, I had my 2500CP for 9 years. I’ve been extremely patient and have worked hard with HP to get a lot of Z rough spots smoothed out. (Way more than a few rolls of complementary plastic paper are worth). I might upgrade if they considered all my time spent with techs, and remember that the marketing department sold the Z as fully hatched 3 years ago when it was very “developmental,“ IMHO. HP - are you listening?

My 2 cents.

So long for now, TOM

[Jeremy Roussak]

An homage to this.

Thanks, Feppe, that is very funny indeed!

Jeremy

[Jim Cole]

An homage to this.

Thanks feppe. That was indeed funny!

[artobest]

Hi Harald

This sounds very intriguing. What media does one print on with this process? (The explanatory pdf on the HP site appears to be missing.)

Peter

[Haraldo]

This sounds very intriguing. What media does one print on with this process? (The explanatory pdf on the HP site appears to be missing.)

Hi Peter... there's a 33-page PDF (linked from same site) with more technical info including types of films, but basically any good transparent media should work. The two top choices at the moment seem to be Mitsubishi Pictorico and a film from Premiere Imaging. Hope that helps.

H

[papa v2.0]

hi Harald
cool stuff from HP once again

[artobest]

Thanks Harald. For some reason that pdf won't download using my Firefox browser. I've got it now.

[ConvincingBlack]

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.
Thanks to Harald for telling me about this discussion thread.

I'm sorry for participating this late in this forum, but I have had a lot of problems to create an account. I discovered that it was impossible using my Macintosh, so I needed to use my PC to do that.
Anyway, I only want to thank your interest on the system and point out some comments that I made in other forum, just to do not cut and paste the same here.

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208

About the main question that everybody has in mind:
Can the Z3100 be used to create HP large format photo negatives?

I'm sorry, but the answer is no.

As I explained in other post in HybridPhoto I tested everything in Z3200. I had no access to a Z3100 when I was developing all this. It is for this reason (that it was not tested) why it is not included as supported in the official PDF document.

I imagine that in some moment Z3100 firmware and Z3200 firmware were similar enough to interchange paper files (I remember that I did it in the past, at the beginning of Z3200 machine development). But I guess that the new versions of the firmware have affected this possibility.

I'll try to continue posting here and other forums as much as I can, and I'll happy sharing with you my knowledge about digital negatives and alternative  processes. About printers, as you can imagine, working for HP I cannot disclose many things.

Thank you again,

Angel.
 

[SergeyT]

After reading the instructions I have a couple of questions.

The document says:
========================
9. CHARACTERIZING DENSITY RESPONSE
In order to fine-tune the response of the negatives for a particular alternative process, it might be necessary to characterize the printer for this purpose. The purpose is to obtain a linear visual response when a linear gray ramp of values is sent to the printer.
========================
Question1. Why do we print and measure "a linear gray ramp" and not just Green ramp?
It has been said before that the Green is already linearized in printer and is the main ink to print the negative? The Black ink is used as additive to reach the Dmax only.
If we are to compensate for the process non-linear response why do we have to deal with Gray ramp when it is less linear then the Green ramp alone?

Later in the text...
========================
10. CURVES USAGE INSTRUCTIONS
...apply the correction curve calculated in previous chapter
========================
Question2. What to apply this curve to : to the original non-inverted image before inverting it and setting the Dmax with Red channel or to the already inverted and ready to print image ?

Thank you,
SergeyT