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Author Topic: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness  (Read 4642 times)

KenS

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Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« on: August 14, 2010, 04:57:37 pm »

I am interested in landscape images with high resolution and large depth of field created by stitching one or two row multiple shots with a FF DSLR.

I'll be heading into the E. Sierra in a few weeks with a rented Canon 5D II and 4 rented lenses (24 TS-E II and 45 TS-E, and two zooms), Nodal Ninja 5, 'flat-stitch' shift equipment, tripods, and my standard Pentax 67 film stuff.  During my one week camp-out at 11000 ft (no electricity!) I'll have time to experiment with various pano/high-res capture techniques I've read about but have little actual experience.  I plan on keeping good notes so I can compare results, try various software apps, etc after I return.

Based on reading these threads ...
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45344.0  (...thanks for your reply Bernard about 'focus blend first')
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=42605.0
http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr_help_stack_example.htm

... I now have a better feel what techniques may or may not work but I would appreciate any tips or suggestions that anyone may have regarding best use of this opportunity.

Ken

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2010, 04:15:22 am »

I am interested in landscape images with high resolution and large depth of field created by stitching one or two row multiple shots with a FF DSLR.

I'll be heading into the E. Sierra in a few weeks with a rented Canon 5D II and 4 rented lenses (24 TS-E II and 45 TS-E, and two zooms), Nodal Ninja 5, 'flat-stitch' shift equipment, tripods, and my standard Pentax 67 film stuff.

For now, I can only advise to try things out and practice while still at home. It seems a bad idea to try on the spot and find out the flaws when you get home.

Cheers,
Bart
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wolfnowl

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 02:00:48 am »

I'll second that.  I still remember, about 30 years ago walking into my (then) local camera store just as a woman was leaving with several hundred dollars worth of camera equipment.  The owner told me she was going on vacation and "wanted to take good pictures".  My comment?  "She's going to be SO disappointed."  Take some time to familiarize yourself with all of your equipment BEFORE you take it out into the field.  Find out what works for you and what doesn't, what you can adapt or change, how things fit together, etc. while in comfortable surroundings and with access to resources.

Mike.
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fike

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 11:16:24 am »

I'll second that.  I still remember, about 30 years ago walking into my (then) local camera store just as a woman was leaving with several hundred dollars worth of camera equipment.  The owner told me she was going on vacation and "wanted to take good pictures".  My comment?  "She's going to be SO disappointed."  Take some time to familiarize yourself with all of your equipment BEFORE you take it out into the field.  Find out what works for you and what doesn't, what you can adapt or change, how things fit together, etc. while in comfortable surroundings and with access to resources.

Mike.

I totally agree with this, particularly with TS-E lenses.  Have you worked with tilt shift lenses before?  Are you planning to spend a lot of time making experimental stitches on a computer to see what works?  Those lenses are not easy to get good results, unless you don't use their advanced capabilities. 

A little side note on the choice of the 5DMKII.  If you want to tripod mounted panoramic work with a substantial depth of field, the 5DMKII may not be better than a cropped sensor 7D.  The smaller sensors effectively provide more depth of field at the same aperture.  If you are tripod mounted, the primary benefit of the full frame sensor (High-ISO performance) is rendered less critical.  Furthermore, you can always stitch together more images to get a wider angle shot that might be difficult with a single frame on a cropped sensor, but the extra reach that the cropped sensor can be quite helpful when you don't have a longer lens available. 

I would steer clear of the 45 TS-E for two reasons:  One, two TS-E lenses to learn and characterize may take a lot of time.  Two, it doesn't have the asynchronous TS rotation feature that allows you independently rotate the shift and the tilt mechanism.  This reduces the flexibility of the lens.
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KenS

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 12:19:46 am »

For now, I can only advise to try things out and practice while still at home. It seems a bad idea to try on the spot and find out the flaws when you get home.
Cheers,
Bart

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I have been concerned about the steep learning curve and have been reading a lot about how to use this equipment BUT I know that can only get you so far... so I've rented it for an extra week before my trip.  I'll have at least several full days to learn and test.

I totally agree with this, particularly with TS-E lenses.  Have you worked with tilt shift lenses before?  Are you planning to spend a lot of time making experimental stitches on a computer to see what works?  Those lenses are not easy to get good results, unless you don't use their advanced capabilities. 

My interest in TS lenses goes back to over 20 years ago.  At that time I decided to to with a Pentax 67 instead of 4x5 large format, and thus ruled out the possibility of using them... until now.  I've always liked the  big foreground 'Muench' look and I think I might be satisfied with them regardless of any stitching advantage they may have. Hopefully with what I've read, the week I have before my trip, and the free time I will have during my trip (with 4 hrs of battery life in a laptop I will bring !) I'll get some good shots... OR at least decide if I really want to go (i.e. purchase) all digital (I currently scan my 6x7 transparencies and B/W film and use Photoshop).
 
A little side note on the choice of the 5DMKII.  If you want to tripod mounted panoramic work with a substantial depth of field, the 5DMKII may not be better than a cropped sensor 7D.  The smaller sensors effectively provide more depth of field at the same aperture.  If you are tripod mounted, the primary benefit of the full frame sensor (High-ISO performance) is rendered less critical.  Furthermore, you can always stitch together more images to get a wider angle shot that might be difficult with a single frame on a cropped sensor, but the extra reach that the cropped sensor can be quite helpful when you don't have a longer lens available.
 

You make a good argument here.  This may mean yet another rental in my future as I try to determine what to eventually purchase. Also, I'm not sure I'd be happy using the 24 and 45 TS-E on a cropped sensor.

I would steer clear of the 45 TS-E for two reasons:  One, two TS-E lenses to learn and characterize may take a lot of time.  Two, it doesn't have the asynchronous TS rotation feature that allows you independently rotate the shift and the tilt mechanism.  This reduces the flexibility of the lens.

The asynchronous TS feature (which the TS-E II 24 has, correct) is certainly an advantage for the shooting I have in mind.  Since this is a rental, I am hoping if I like the TS-E 45 and decide to go all digital in perhaps 3-6 months there will be a 45 II with this feature.  I don't think (and may be naive :-) many of my shooting situations will be as challenging as yours since I mostly shoot mountain landscape, Southwest 'stonescapes', and seascapes, none of which have  bothersome trees which protrude above the TS-E DOF wedge or move in the wind.

The appeal of the TS-E 45 is for 3 stitches (flat-shift stitch or pano) where the final image will still be within a wide angle range I like (>14 mm, FF).  The TS-E 90 holds some interest for me too, but there is only so much I can afford to rent.

I followed your progress (previous thread:
Tilt Shift and Panoramas « Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 11:37:22 AM ») where you considered creating two rows, with tilt in the bottom row, blended with non-tilt in the top row.  I take it you've pretty much given up on this and don't recommend it ? I will give it a try anyway as a means to get around more than 3 or 4 shot focus stacking; any tips on what I should try first, or avoid?

fike

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 09:52:12 am »

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I have been concerned about the steep learning curve and have been reading a lot about how to use this equipment BUT I know that can only get you so far... so I've rented it for an extra week before my trip.  I'll have at least several full days to learn and test.
...

I followed your progress (previous thread:
Tilt Shift and Panoramas « Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 11:37:22 AM ») where you considered creating two rows, with tilt in the bottom row, blended with non-tilt in the top row.  I take it you've pretty much given up on this and don't recommend it ? I will give it a try anyway as a means to get around more than 3 or 4 shot focus stacking; any tips on what I should try first, or avoid?

I wouldn't say I have given up yet.  The results can be VERY GOOD!  But, it isn't as simple and easy as it might theoretically seem.  I tend to work quickly and move around a lot.  TS-E panoramas do not lend themselves to that kind of work habit.
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KenS

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Re: Panorama Experiments in the Wilderness
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 03:05:57 pm »

I wouldn't say I have given up yet.  The results can be VERY GOOD!  ...

"VERY GOOD" is what I like to hear, and see  :).  I hope you'll keep us informed of progress and details on technique.
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