Payment Sytems

[Rob C]

Hi

A general question regarding your preferred method of collecting payment for prints ordered from your websites. What do you choose and why?

It seems there are several different ways to do this - has anyone made any sort of study of which is more useful, not expensive and is safe for both seller and buyer?

Any advice would instantly make me know more than I do at the moment!

Rob C

[PeterAit]

Hi

A general question regarding your preferred method of collecting payment for prints ordered from your websites. What do you choose and why?

It seems there are several different ways to do this - has anyone made any sort of study of which is more useful, not expensive and is safe for both seller and buyer?

Any advice would instantly make me know more than I do at the moment!

Rob C

I have used PayPal for many years for several different things. It has always worked well and never presented a problem. I don't know if their fees are the lowest, but I'd rather pay a bit more for reliable service.

[feppe]

I have used PayPal for many years for several different things. It has always worked well and never presented a problem. I don't know if their fees are the lowest, but I'd rather pay a bit more for reliable service.

Alternate opinions.

[Nick Rains]

Alternate opinions.

Whoa, that's some scary stuff.  I have been using PayPal quite happily for a while now, with no issues, but if this stuff is even half true then maybe I'll re-think it. I do take precautions, I have a dedicated credit card with a very low limit to use for purchases and the account linked to PayPal is a separate one which I keep at a very low balance - a kinda 'firewall' account.

Still, the Internet is a jungle and it's very easy to get eaten.

I have used other credit card facilities on my site, through my bank, nothing to do with the 'free' internet payment portals. You need a full credit card merchant account and a gateway facility (www.eway.com.au). It costs, in my case, about $360 per year plus a transaction fee but it's (relatively) safe.

[fredjeang]

And the good thing is that the Weebly platform you are using has a total integration modules with Paypal.
No hassles to do commercial transactions.

Cheers.

[digitaldog]

I have used PayPal for many years for several different things. It has always worked well and never presented a problem. I don't know if their fees are the lowest, but I'd rather pay a bit more for reliable service.

That’s exactly been my experience too. Rock solid, never an issue. They deserve their modest cut.

[Rob C]

Thanks for your replies, folks, I have to say that it seems rather more daunting than I'd imagined.

It might make sense to stay within the setup that Weebly provides (PayPal), but I'm not 100% sold on that sense of loyalty, because I eventually scrapped the house-contents insurance I had with one company to join with the company that insures the entire set of community buildings. The upshot has been that it is almost impossible to get them to accept anything isn't an act of God! Where I once feared a conflict between what one firm said was personal and another said was community, it's now all in limbo with the single firm being very reluctant to dip into its purse for anything.

But maybe selling is different!

Thanks again for your various inputs.

Rob C

[Brad Proctor]

Alternate opinions.

While I'm not a big fan of PayPal, that site is a front for the company they are supposedly promoting as the PayPal alternative.  If you are worried about PayPal, I'd run as fast as you can away from that National Merchant Bancard company.

[JohnKoerner]

Thanks for your replies, folks, I have to say that it seems rather more daunting than I'd imagined.
It might make sense to stay within the setup that Weebly provides (PayPal), but I'm not 100% sold on that sense of loyalty, because I eventually scrapped the house-contents insurance I had with one company to join with the company that insures the entire set of community buildings. The upshot has been that it is almost impossible to get them to accept anything isn't an act of God! Where I once feared a conflict between what one firm said was personal and another said was community, it's now all in limbo with the single firm being very reluctant to dip into its purse for anything.
But maybe selling is different!
Thanks again for your various inputs.
Rob C

I have used Paypal for a very long time now, and I have sold thousands of books, DVDs, etc. using Paypal.

I would say that most people are honest. In the no-telling-how-many transactions I have made, I have only had maybe 5 people try to burn me. They do this by claiming they never received the object (or by claiming it was "not as expected," etc.). Of the maybe 5 deadbeats who have ever tried to scam me, only 1 succeeded.

The way to make sure you never get scammed is essentially 1) send a product exactly as represented, 2) send it in a timely fashion, 3) communicate all aspects of the sale/shipping to the customer, 4) always use a tracking number, and 5) ONLY send your product to the Paypal-Confirmed address.

The reason the 1 guy got away with scamming me on that one occasion was 2-fold: (1) the guy claimed someone "else" used his credit card and (2) I sent the product to an address other than what was listed in the Paypal payment. Never do this, because Paypal will not stand behind you if you ship to a non-confirmed address. Believe me, I will never do that again  

Anyway, on the other ~4 occasions people tried to scam me by claiming they didn't get something, etc., I had numbers 1-5 above covered, and Paypal honored my end of it and the scammers failed. Of course, what helped in those cases also was the simple fact I have had a history of dozens and dozens of mutually-satisfactory transactions every month, for several years running, so the anomaly was clearly the errant customer.

All-in-all, Paypal is a great service to have. It's not quite as cheap as using a credit card company, but it's pretty darned solid and it's pretty darned convenient.

Good luck to you,

Jack




.

[Rob C]

I have used Paypal for a very long time now, and I have sold thousands of books, DVDs, etc. using Paypal.

I would say that most people are honest. In the no-telling-how-many transactions I have made, I have only had maybe 5 people try to burn me. They do this by claiming they never received the object (or by claiming it was "not as expected," etc.). Of the maybe 5 deadbeats who have ever tried to scam me, only 1 succeeded.

The way to make sure you never get scammed is essentially 1) send a product exactly as represented, 2) send it in a timely fashion, 3) communicate all aspects of the sale/shipping to the customer, 4) always use a tracking number, and 5) ONLY send your product to the Paypal-Confirmed address.

The reason the 1 guy got away with scamming me on that one occasion was 2-fold: (1) the guy claimed someone "else" used his credit card and (2) I sent the product to an address other than what was listed in the Paypal payment. Never do this, because Paypal will not stand behind you if you ship to a non-confirmed address. Believe me, I will never do that again  

Anyway, on the other ~4 occasions people tried to scam me by claiming they didn't get something, etc., I had numbers 1-5 above covered, and Paypal honored my end of it and the scammers failed. Of course, what helped in those cases also was the simple fact I have had a history of dozens and dozens of mutually-satisfactory transactions every month, for several years running, so the anomaly was clearly the errant customer.

All-in-all, Paypal is a great service to have. It's not quite as cheap as using a credit card company, but it's pretty darned solid and it's pretty darned convenient.

Good luck to you,

Jack

Thanks, Jack, I'l take all that advice on board.

Rob C

[TomSmalling]

Paypal is fine as long as you're sending a product and follow what John posted earlier.  If you're using it to collect for services rendered, without a physical product, then I would be a little worried.  I've heard horror stories of designers getting screwed due to Paypal siding with the customers.  This could be old news, but I would hate for it to happen to anyone.  If you're going to do a lot of sales via credit card, then the best way is to set up a merchant account.  If you're doing an occasional sale, then Paypal should be fine.

[Dustbak]

First I think you need to understand that none of these companies are there for you or have being your friend high on their priority list. I have used Paypal for years now without much of a problem. Their money back guarantee is kind of like a gamble. It has worked a couple of times but I have had it fail on me several times. I have basically concluded that when you have a conflict where you need to get your money back, file a dispute ASAP so Paypal can block the other parties account. If that account is empty and they cannot withdraw it via other accounts you do not get refunded (unless you want to go through the hassle of taking them to courts etc..).

So, be careful and use your common sense, don't allow yourself to be dependent on having to trust them with your money. This applies for most things I reckon.

As a merchant I have also good experiences with 2checkout but I have not used them for a while now.

[Chris_Brown]

PayPal.

Dive into their services policies (which'll take a few days ) and you'll find they cover the seller/buyer transaction with safety and fairness. They get a 2.98% cut.

For my needs, that's far cheaper than paying my bank to have a credit card swiper at my studio. While these machines are great for POP sales, the issuing banks generally rent the machines and charge a per-transaction fee plus a percentage of the pre-tax sales. This adds up to about 5% of gross pre-tax sales.

[Rob C]

I get the impression that no system is much good unless there is already an established flow of selling going on from the base; for somebody such as I, thinking of dabbling, perhaps it is too early... but then when is the right time? C'est la vie.

Thanks for your views again.

Rob C

[feppe]

PayPal.

Dive into their services policies (which'll take a few days ) and you'll find they cover the seller/buyer transaction with safety and fairness. They get a 2.98% cut.

The main problem with Paypal is that it's not a bank. Real banks do charge heftier fees, but they also have a legal obligation to treat their customers right. Paypal doesn't.

There are numerous horror stories of legit Paypal businesses having all their Paypal assets frozen for months with little to no explanation, having to go through convoluted and time-consuming support somewhere around the world to get anything solved.

If it was my livelihood, I wouldn't trust any non-bank institution with my transactions.

[Chris_Brown]

The main problem with Paypal is that it's not a bank. Real banks do charge heftier fees, but they also have a legal obligation to treat their customers right. Paypal doesn't.

I can't think of a bank, even Chase or Citibank, that provides the type of services PayPal does. International transactions are done as fast and as easy as local ones, and there's no "wire transfer" fee.

Sending money, sending invoices, letting customers all around the world use credit cards or bank transfers to handle transactions; Banks are like dinosaurs compared to this functionality.

What bank do you know of that offers these services? (I'm not being rhetorical, just curious).

I also noticed that Amazon.com was getting into financial transactions when you have a "store" with them. Post up some archival prints and see what happens!

[feppe]

I can't think of a bank, even Chase or Citibank, that provides the type of services PayPal does. International transactions are done as fast and as easy as local ones, and there's no "wire transfer" fee.

Sending money, sending invoices, letting customers all around the world use credit cards or bank transfers to handle transactions; Banks are like dinosaurs compared to this functionality.

What bank do you know of that offers these services? (I'm not being rhetorical, just curious).

I also noticed that Amazon.com was getting into financial transactions when you have a "store" with them. Post up some archival prints and see what happens!

Google "merchant account"

[Dustbak]

Throughout the whole of Europe with the BIC/IBAN system payments are very easy and without costs! Paypal charges several percent over a payment I receive.

The problem starts with wire transfer payments between Europe/US/ASIA. I don't pay fees making a wire transfer to an US or Asian account but depending on the bank the receiving end of the payment can be charged wire transfer fees.

It is funny, since the days of DigiCash there has not been much progress in getting International payments go smoothly and safely (let's not even discuss the privacy element in this). This was in the mid/early 90's. Paypal is one of the best and most progressed sofar which I find amazing considering what we were working on (and already had developed) in 1995. In 15 years I did expect the world to be much further in this area...

[feppe]

Throughout the whole of Europe with the BIC/IBAN system payments are very easy and without costs! Paypal charges several percent over a payment I receive.

The problem starts with wire transfer payments between Europe/US/ASIA. I don't pay fees making a wire transfer to an US or Asian account but depending on the bank the receiving end of the payment can be charged wire transfer fees.

It is funny, since the days of DigiCash there has not been much progress in getting International payments go smoothly and safely (let's not even discuss the privacy element in this). This was in the mid/early 90's. Paypal is one of the best and most progressed sofar which I find amazing considering what we were working on (and already had developed) in 1995. In 15 years I did expect the world to be much further in this area...

From the customer POV I would never recommend BIC/IBAN payments. I got burned paying for a 5DII that way from a UK store - long story short I'm getting final refund instalments in a week or two. That case has been going since January 2009. Refunds and dispute resolution is pretty much down to their cooperation with you, or taking it to court. Next time I'm going directly to a lawyer when a seller starts playing delay tactics.

If I pay by credit card and the seller doesn't deliver, I can dispute the charge, get the refund immediately, and the CC company will take care of all the hassle. If I pay by Paypal, I might get my money back in a few months, after lot of hassle for me (or so I've heard).

While you are completely right about bank transfers not developing much for years, they were never designed for small cross-border online transactions with end-customers. That's what merchant accounts (and Paypal and Google Checkout and yes there are other Paypal alternatives) are for.

Merchant accounts are not cheap especially for low-volume sellers, but having that VISA/AMEX/Diners banner on your website gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling of security. I use Paypal on costly items only with companies I fully trust, and on eBay with individuals who have impeccable feedback.

[Dustbak]

Feppe,

I did not mean that bank transfers have not developed over the years but online payment systems in general. Back in the days with DigiCash there was a payment system developed that really mimiced online cash money. Very elegant and also very efficient for micropayments. Based on this technology a whole range of derivative products were possible and some even developed.

Now we are 15 years down the road and we have actually gone back instead of having moved forward! Initiatives like Paypal or Google's are working but are a far cry of a sound online payment infrastructure.