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Author Topic: Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version  (Read 4963 times)

Pesto

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« on: June 10, 2010, 07:56:59 pm »

Today I received a 120 Mamiya macro lens that I purchased on ebay. The seller represented the lens as a "D" version, but it is not. It appears to be 2006 vintage and is in great condition, but I have been unable to test it as my PhaseOne camera has yet to arrive. Aside from the 16 bit chip, are there optical differences between this lens and the current "D" versions from Phase and Mamiya? Is this worth making a fuss about from a user point of view, putting ethical matters aside for now?

Many thanks!
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Pesto

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 08:31:46 pm »

Thanks John,
That is pretty much what I suspected. Given that this is a manual focus lens, I am not sure as to what the 16 bit chip does.
Regards,

DAB.
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Steve Hendrix

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 10:46:51 pm »

Quote from: John-S
Optically the 120mm macro 645 AF version (manual focus) is the same as the D version. Only difference that should matter is the cost. The D version will cost more, newer, 16 bit chip, woopdeedo. A used AF version can be had for $700-900 range. I sold mine last year with my AFDII/Aptus22 and all RZ gear. Superb lens for product, food, tabletop work.

How much did you pay?

(It's really the fault of all the gear makers. Just create a piece of equipment, give it a simple moniker, and when it's updated/upgraded, give a version increase, nothing more. Tamron is the worst with infinite useless letters to symbolize something ad nauseum for their lenses.)


Yes, sometimes. Not always. The difference between the Mamiya 80mm/2.8 non D and the Mamiya/Phase One 80mm/2.8 D is dramatic, with the D version much sharper. The difference between the 120mm's is much less though, so in this instance, I agree that a 120mm non D is an excellent value.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

ondebanks

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 04:47:40 am »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
The difference between the 120mm's is much less though, so in this instance, I agree that a 120mm non D is an excellent value.

Steve Hendrix

Steve,

Is there any difference at all between the various 120mm versions? I thought that they were all the same optically, ever since the early 1990s pre-AF version, so I am genuinely curious. You say that  there is a difference - albeit "much less" than the 80mm case - so you must have tested this? Or can you point us to a test somewhere?

Thanks,
Ray
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Steve Hendrix

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 09:36:24 am »

Quote from: ondebanks
Steve,

Is there any difference at all between the various 120mm versions? I thought that they were all the same optically, ever since the early 1990s pre-AF version, so I am genuinely curious. You say that  there is a difference - albeit "much less" than the 80mm case - so you must have tested this? Or can you point us to a test somewhere?

Thanks,
Ray


I have both versions. If I can get to it today I'll do a test and compare. The general perspective is the difference is minor. But we'll see.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

Steve Hendrix

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 01:32:35 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
I have both versions. If I can get to it today I'll do a test and compare. The general perspective is the difference is minor. But we'll see.


Steve Hendrix


After testing a Phase One 120mm/4 D Lens and a Mamiya 120mm/4 non-D Lens Friday afternoon my conclusion bears out the prevailing consensus; that the two versions are very, very close (see attachments). The Mamiya 120/4 has always been one of the best 120mm macro lenses for medium format. There just wasn't a whole of improvement that could be done with the lens. Nonetheless, it's understandable that the process of improvement from the original Mamiya lenses to the upgraded D versions was applied and is continuing to be applied to as many lenses as possible. I suspect that the degree of improvement may be an unknown factor until the finished product, and at that point, with the R&D invested, why not certify it as an upgraded model? There certainly has been significant improvement in some of the lenses from non D to D.

We've posted our 150mm comparison time and again, but here once more...
http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/lens

I've seen somewhere MTF charts comparing the Mamiya legacy glass to Contax Zeiss and Hassleblad Zeiss and the Mamya legacy glass actually fared quite well to my surprise. But to be sure, there are some average lenses in the legacy lineup that have benefitted and will benefit greatly from the upgrade process. Most of the Mamiya complaints I've heard in the past have been more about build quality than optical quality. And all of the D version chassis are much more robust than the legacy versions.


Steve Hendrix

[attachment=22582:Mamiya_120_non_D.jpg][attachment=22583:Phase_On...0_D_Lens.jpg
]
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 01:34:00 pm by Steve Hendrix »
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Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

Pesto

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Mamiya 120 f/4.0 D vs. Non D Version
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 08:39:57 pm »

Hello Steve,
Thank you for your efforts, you have been extremely helpful and this is service above and beyond.

Douglas Benson
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