Advantages/Disadvantages of Listing Rates on your website

[JoeKitchen]

I always operated under the belief that listing your rates on your website could cause your prospects to assume things about how long you have be operating, your experience and quality produced and things such as that.  Also, it makes your rates much more solid and could cause prospects to turn away thinking that you would not negotiate with them on things like breaking the payment up if needed.  So I decided not list my rates on my website like many photographers.  

But just recently I read a report giving modern trends on why people may not do business with a company and one was not listing your rates.  Now I do not know how accurate this report was, but it has gotten me thinking should I list my rates (just my basic creative/standard rights fee and my digital capture fee with a line saying additional licensing will be negotiated) on my website?  What do you think?

[fredjeang]

Maybe that's something you could do in a "user-password" area?
Or, a link to an agent or department different from the main site.

[haefnerphoto]

I wouldn't do it.  There's no advantage that I can see from listing your rates.  Jim

[geesbert]

if your work is passport portraits or similar it might work, but usually no job is like the other, so an individual quote is a must. I only give a quote on written request, and always in writing, always a pdf and not a inline email. When someone calls me about a job, I discuss the requirements and then ask for a brief email to pin that down. Never, ever do I tell things like creative fees or usage fees orally. If a client is not willing to write a five line email, I doubt they are serious about their enquiry. this strategy saved my arse a couple of times, which is more worth than one or two jobs which I didn't get.

[fredjeang]

if your work is passport portraits or similar it might work, but usually no job is like the other, so an individual quote is a must. I only give a quote on written request, and always in writing, always a pdf and not a inline email. When someone calls me about a job, I discuss the requirements and then ask for a brief email to pin that down. Never, ever do I tell things like creative fees or usage fees orally. If a client is not willing to write a five line email, I doubt they are serious about their enquiry. this strategy saved my arse a couple of times, which is more worth than one or two jobs which I didn't get.

I join these wise points.
I would not do it, but if you have a doubt and want to implement something in your website, maybe with user-password is a safer way. PDF is also better IMO.

Cheers

[Guy Mancuso]

NEVER








Rates can vary depending on job, usage and a million other reasons

[Ben Rubinstein]

I think it depends on the business. I do for weddings but I can see why it would be really bad for a commercial shooter. A fine art photographer who doesn't show prices for prints isn't going to sell much.

[AndreNapier]

Well, it truly depends on where your money is coming from. If you only deal with commercial clients than you are better off not listing your prices. On the other hand if your business is also open to general public ( and I do not mean here passport photo ) than you absolutely need clear prices posted and easily understood by customers. Most of us hate to walk to any establishment and have to ask for prices. "If you have to ask it means you can not afford it." From years of experience in client oriented business I can absolutely assure you that you are going to loose 90% of potential clients by not disclosing your prices. Most people assume no prices equal high prices or other reason to hide them and opt to stay away. With internet people expect to get all info they need to make a decision without personal contact with merchant. With dozens of merchants fighting for the same costumer people will go with no surprises and clear message.
In the past I heard way to many times from my client who got referred by their friends that they have seen my work many times before but always assumed that my prices would be beyond their ability to pay.
By clearly posting the prices we increased our business 300% in just first year.

http://AndreNapierStudio.com

[JonathanBenoit]

Well, it truly depends on where your money is coming from. If you only deal with commercial clients than you are better off not listing your prices. On the other hand if your business is also open to general public ( and I do not mean here passport photo ) than you absolutely need clear prices posted and easily understood by customers. Most of us hate to walk to any establishment and have to ask for prices. "If you have to ask it means you can not afford it." From years of experience in client oriented business I can absolutely assure you that you are going to loose 90% of potential clients by not disclosing your prices. Most people assume no prices equal high prices or other reason to hide them and opt to stay away. With internet people expect to get all info they need to make a decision without personal contact with merchant. With dozens of merchants fighting for the same costumer people will go with no surprises and clear message.
In the past I heard way to many times from my client who got referred by their friends that they have seen my work many times before but always assumed that my prices would be beyond their ability to pay.
By clearly posting the prices we increased our business 300% in just first year.

http://AndreNapierStudio.com

This is interesting. I'm not sure if this would work for an architectural photographer, but if it has worked for you than similar photographers might want to consider it.

[PeterAit]

I always operated under the belief that listing your rates on your website could cause your prospects to assume things about how long you have be operating, your experience and quality produced and things such as that.  Also, it makes your rates much more solid and could cause prospects to turn away thinking that you would not negotiate with them on things like breaking the payment up if needed.  So I decided not list my rates on my website like many photographers.  

But just recently I read a report giving modern trends on why people may not do business with a company and one was not listing your rates.  Now I do not know how accurate this report was, but it has gotten me thinking should I list my rates (just my basic creative/standard rights fee and my digital capture fee with a line saying additional licensing will be negotiated) on my website?  What do you think?

In my business (not photography, but still rate-based) I do not list rates on the web but do have some verbiage about providing "the highest quality work at a reasonable cost" and also something about "sensitivity to clients' budgetary restraints." I think this gets across a willingness to discuss rates and not be set in stone. On the other hand, you might want to have a "standard rate sheet" that you can provide on request.

[JoeKitchen]

A lot to think about.  Today I believe that there is a big emphasis on full disclosure and have read in a few places that most expect to see full disclosure when ever they plan on buying something.  And with the ease of finding professionals, if you do not have full disclosure, then it would be very easy for a prospect to find someone else in your same speciality.  And I have to agree with Andre, if you produce good work and you have no prices listed, I guess people would think that you are expensive and likely to look else where.  I have had clients tell me they thought I would be a little more expensive than I am.  In terms of trying to make it work for architectural photography, I believe that it would not be that hard.  Every architect and designer that I have worked with wanted the same exact licensing rights; I already have a set rate for working with architects and interior designer with set rights.  For hospitality professionals it can be a little different.  They usually want a little more to a lot more rights then what are given in my standard rights package.  I have set "tag on's" in addition to the standard rights with set prices; this does not cover everything but it would not be expected to.  If I list them on my website, I could list all of them or just explain that if you wanted additional rights to contact me for more details.  

Did I mention that the lead architectural photography in my area has his prices listed and many use his services.

[Kirk Gittings]

I never post rates, because how I charge is a little complex and must fit the particular job. I also charge more to clients who are in major markets, LA, Chicago etc. than I do to local clients. Why? Because I can. They are used to paying higher rates. Clients who compare "Rates" for commercial photograhy are inexperienced consumers, because "rates" are a myth-only the bottom line and usage really matter and that must be specifically quoted for each particular job.

[JoeKitchen]

I never post rates, because how I charge is a little complex and must fit the particular job. I also charge more to clients who are in major markets, LA, Chicago etc. than I do to local clients. Why? Because I can. They are used to paying higher rates. Clients who compare "Rates" for commercial photograhy are inexperienced consumers, because "rates" are a myth-only the bottom line and usage really matter and that must be specifically quoted for each particular job.

Clients in major markets are used to paying more?  Like I said before it is so easy today to find professionals and/or market yourself to any market no matter where you live or operate.  Not sure if you could do this much longer without one of your higher paying clients finding out and becoming offended.  

I think finding clients in totally different markets will become more so in the future and due to full disclosure, you will be expected to charge the same to all; every one is going to be using the images in the same way to the same extent considering the cost (or lack of cost) in marketing yourself today.  

To give you an example I live in Philadelphia, PA and today I had a short conversation with an architect in Rochester, NY, at least 8 hours by car away, on Twitter.  Really took no work for me to become introduced to him, happened almost by accident.  Another, a client of mine designed a house to be built in South Africa without ever going there; South African citizen commissioned the job without ever living South Africa.  By the way, my client has only one person working for her, herself.  

[Kirk Gittings]

Clients in major markets are used to paying more?  Like I said before it is so easy today to find professionals and/or market yourself to any market no matter where you live or operate.  Not sure if you could do this much longer without one of your higher paying clients finding out and becoming offended.  

I think finding clients in totally different markets will become more so in the future and due to full disclosure, you will be expected to charge the same to all; every one is going to be using the images in the same way to the same extent considering the cost (or lack of cost) in marketing yourself today.  

To give you an example I live in Philadelphia, PA and today I had a short conversation with an architect in Rochester, NY, at least 8 hours by car away, on Twitter.  Really took no work for me to become introduced to him, happened almost by accident.  Another, a client of mine designed a house to be built in South Africa without ever going there; South African citizen commissioned the job without ever living South Africa.  By the way, my client has only one person working for her, herself.

I've been doing it for thirty+ years very successfully. I am not an office supply salesman I am an artist. My local clients have no contact with national clients. It simply doesn't happen. A two tiered pricing policy is very common. All successful AP that I know do it if they live in a small market but do allot of their work in major markets. I didn't invent it. My prices to national clients would scare off the local clients and I know from experience that with the local prices I would not be taken seriously by large clients in a major market. You don't have to believe this, but it has worked and continues to work.

[Rob C]

I'm with Kirk on this one, and it does depend on how seriously you take yourself, but there are twin dangers: you can find yourself in a shrinking market due to the economy; you can become too used to doing less for more.

This is anecdotal - but it doesn't help when the 'phone stops ringing.

Rob C

[marc gerritsen]

I'm with Kirk on this one,
Rob C

me too


i charge between 20 to 50% more for international clients, basically anybody off the island
i also charge more for corporate clients or strictly commercial clients
i am also fine to tell all my clients about the different rates and when i do they actually all understand

cheers
m

[CBarrett]

me too


i charge between 20 to 50% more for international clients, basically anybody off the island
i also charge more for corporate clients or strictly commercial clients
i am also fine to tell all my clients about the different rates and when i do they actually all understand

cheers
m

Interesting.  I've often pondered about doing a lesser rate for those smaller firms who simply can't afford me but do really good work that I want to shoot.  I don't know how I justify that to my larger clients, it's like saying "Well, their work is more interesting than your's so they get a deal..."  Not great for client relations.

As for everything else, I pretty much work for the same firms all the time so I can't see any advantage in publishing my rates.  I expect that in this market it will just lead to your competition undercutting you.  I do estimates really quickly, and pricing almost never varies, it's a basic formula... dayrate/usage + (imaging charge * # images desired) = you pay me this.  I could easily make a Web Form that let's people do their own estimates, but the idea of that is a little scary.

I prefer to have people contact me so that there is a more personal interaction.  The dialogue often reveals my expertise with the subject matter, how easy I am to work with, my excitement about their project and you can't get any of that off a rate sheet.

-CB

[revaaron]

I will never do this. Negotiations are done individually.

[Kirk Gittings]

I prefer to have people contact me so that there is a more personal interaction.

Absolutely, If I can talk to them and get a feel for their expectations and budget, I can usually (if I want the job) find a way to get it and make a decent profit. IME there is no way to quote a price without talking to them and knowing exactly what the project is. "Rates" in the abstract are meaningless and a fool's comparison. Any client that is comparing rates in the abstract needs to be educated. A typical example is a hospital shoot for an architect. Same number of shots......but if the hospital is IN operation the shoot is going to take twice as long, I am going to need an additional assistant and the bill is going to about double. How would you put all the possible variables in an online rate sheet that made ANY sense.

What I always want is someone to look at my website, decide I am the one they want to shoot this and have them call me. That way I am in the drivers seat negotiating fees. After hearing from them the first thing I do is research the company and see how large they are, where there main offices are, what level of photography they have on their website, if credited who are the photographers they have been using etc. This helps me get a feel for their budget expectations. Then I call them back with an estimate (I don't want a quote-I want an estimate if possible, because that gives me more flexibility shooting the job).

[AndreNapier]

What I always want is someone to look at my website, decide I am the one they want to shoot this and have them call me. That way I am in the drivers seat negotiating fees. After hearing from them the first thing I do is research the company and see how large they are, where there main offices are, what level of photography they have on their website, if credited who are the photographers they have been using etc. This helps me get a feel for their budget expectations. Then I call them back with an estimate (I don't want a quote-I want an estimate if possible, because that gives me more flexibility shooting the job).

Wow, I think in recent months we have made a full circle here on LL. After talking couple months ago about photography business being destroyed by young clueless photogs we reached the closing point here and Kirk's quote is the greatest illustration of it.

Of course it would be great to be always in the drivers seat negotiating fees, it would be even nicer if the companies that want to hire an artist photographer would have to offer a complete disclosure of their financial resources prior to negotiation so you can charge them according to their means. Unfortunately it is more likely Kirk that instead of you researching the company to get the feel of their budget, somebody in the company you are hopping to do business with is going to type in Google ( Kirk Gittings Rates Fees ) and in just few seconds find THIS on LL to help them understand how your rates are calculated.

I know that you have been doing a successful business for 30 years but please stop and think about it for a second.
Times have changed. Your thoughts are not private any more. Being and artist does not equal being businessman. We are living in AG era ( AFTER GOOGLE ).
Andre