Canon 6300/8300 Dmax?

[Light Seeker]

I've been looking at either an Epson 7900 or a Canon 6300, and the Canon seems to be coming out as the stronger fit for my purposes. However, I'm unsure about the Canon's Dmax capabilities.

Can you tell what I can expect for Dmax from a Canon 6300? I print on both fine art gloss (e.g. Silver Rag) and fine art matte media. In particular, I'm curious about Canson matte papers such as Rag Photographique and BFK Rives and Hahnemuhle matte papers such as Photo Rag.

Thanks.

Terry.

[John Hollenberg]

Try this link and read sections on dmax by Scott Martin and Realman10:

http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Downloadable+Colorthink+Movie+of+3D+Gamuts+

[JeffKohn]

Here are some of the DMax's I've measured in monochrome mode on the 6300 (as calculated by QuadToneRIP's QTR-Create-ICC.exe):

For matte papers:
--------------------------
Hahn Photo Rag 308 - 1.68
Canson Rag Photographique - 1.64
Epson Cold Press Natural - 1.72

For semi-gloss/baryta:
----------------------
Canson Baryta Photographique - 2.59
Canson Platine Fiber Rag - 2.46
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta - 2.57

[deanwork]

If that's true I'm a little shocked. My HP Z3100 dmax, either rgb or grayscale is 1.78-1.8 on these matt rag papers and very high on the fiber gloss media, far beyond what I was getting with Ultrachrome and the Piezography K7 that were both arund 1.67 on Photorag 308.

[JeffKohn]

If that's true I'm a little shocked. My HP Z3100 dmax, either rgb or grayscale is 1.78-1.8 on these matt rag papers and very high on the fiber gloss media, far beyond what I was getting with Ultrachrome and the Piezography K7 that were both arund 1.67 on Photorag 308.

I don't have any experience with the HP inksets, but having previously used the Epson K3 inks my impression is that Lucia/EX are about the same as K3 for matte, but better for gloss/semi-gloss (I've gotten L* readings as low as 2.25 on some semi-gloss papers).

Make sure to compare numbers that are apples to apples; it wouldn't be hard to get a single spot-reading from Measure Tool that's higher than the result from QTR-Create-ICC (which is from averaging readings for several patches).  These QTR #'s correlate to black-points in the L* range of about 14.5 - 17. It may be possible to achieve slightly better DMax numbers on the matte papers with a different media type selection, but it would probably come at the expense of overall tonality and linearity. The Lucia EX seems to be at its best on photo-black papers.

[Light Seeker]

If that's true I'm a little shocked. My HP Z3100 dmax, either rgb or grayscale is 1.78-1.8 on these matt rag papers and very high on the fiber gloss media, far beyond what I was getting with Ultrachrome and the Piezography K7 that were both arund 1.67 on Photorag 308.

This seems to align with what Geoff Wittig wrote in another thread. . .

. . . but the Z printers are still the best choice if you're mostly doing black & white. They have hands-down the best d-max on both matte cotton rag and semigloss/baryta papers, totally neutral grey/black inks, the best print longevity, and a very good BW driver mode.

And Jeff's comments. . . .

I don't have any experience with the HP inksets, but having previously used the Epson K3 inks my impression is that Lucia/EX are about the same as K3 for matte, but better for gloss/semi-gloss (I've gotten L* readings as low as 2.25 on some semi-gloss papers).

. . . The Lucia EX seems to be at its best on photo-black papers.

. . .  confirm the impression I've had, that I can expect a similar Dmax on matte and deeper blacks on gloss media (Canon vs Epson).

Thanks.

Terry.

[Light Seeker]

I'm curious. . . .  what is the tonality of Canon's black / gray inks?

Terry.

[JeffKohn]

I'm curious. . . .  what is the tonality of Canon's black / gray inks?

If you mean warm/cool/neutral, I'm not really sure although I suspect the gray inks are slightly warm. AFAIK there's no way to tell the Canon driver to use only the black/gray inks. Like Epson's ABW mode, Canon's Monochrome mode uses small amounts of color to achieve the desired tone. You would need a RIP to see the output of specific ink channels. QTR works for older Epsons, but not Canon. On the Mac, True B&W by BowHaus might work, but I'm a PC/Windows guy so I haven't tried it.

[Light Seeker]

If you mean warm/cool/neutral, I'm not really sure although I suspect the gray inks are slightly warm.

Yes, I'm wondering about warm/cool/neutral.

AFAIK there's no way to tell the Canon driver to use only the black/gray inks. <snip> QTR works for older Epsons, but not Canon. On the Mac, True B&W by BowHaus might work, but I'm a PC/Windows guy so I haven't tried it.

The Canon would replace a 3800 that I will dedicate to monochrome printing, which in turn will replace a 2200 with dedicated b/w inks. Most of my b/w prints will be made using QTR on the 3800 with dedicated b/w inks, but I hope to use the 6300 and True B&W when I need larger prints.

Terry.