P25+ vs P30+ for landscape photography !

[mAlKhamis]

Dear all,

I'm kind of new in MF Digital photography world, i finally sold out my whole 35mm digital system, and decided to step on for MFD system, most of my work is between landscape photography and sometimes macro photography. I made an extensive research on the commercially available MF systems. based on my research and conclusions, the phase one open platform system is the best for my needs, BUT!! i'm kind of lost now between two digital backs offered by phase one and which i can afford to buy,, those are the P30+ cropped sensor and the P25+ nearly full frame sensor,,,

So here is the question,,, which one would be the best for my photography; a larger sensor ( P25+) or more megapixel advantage in a cropped senor (P30+) in terms of the best results for outdoor photography ,, please note that i care do for a sharper, more colorful, best contrast and more HDR results.

help and advice are appreciated

cheers!

Mohammad Alkhamis

[BernardLanguillier]

Dear all,

I'm kind of new in MF Digital photography world, i finally sold out my whole 35mm digital system, and decided to step on for MFD system, most of my work is between landscape photography and sometimes macro photography. I made an extensive research on the commercially available MF systems. based on my research and conclusions, the phase one open platform system is the best for my needs, BUT!! i'm kind of lost now between two digital backs offered by phase one and which i can afford to buy,, those are the P30+ cropped sensor and the P25+ nearly full frame sensor,,,

So here is the question,,, which one would be the best for my photography; a larger sensor ( P25+) or more megapixel advantage in a cropped senor (P30+) in terms of the best results for outdoor photography ,, please note that i care do for a sharper, more colorful, best contrast and more HDR results.

Some considerations, without discussing the quality of the pixels of each back at high ISO:

- the larger sensor will provide wider field of view but will also challenge lenses more,
- the P30+ is designed to offer better high ISO image quality
- the smaller sensor of the P30+ will deliver a bit more DoF all other things being equal,

Whether you intend to stitch or not should clearly impact your selection also.

What you should try to figure out also:
- how is the battery life of both backs in the conditions (temperatures) you typically shoot in?
- are minor interfaces different relevant to you?

Good luck.

Cheers,
Bernard

[uaiomex]

Bernard:
I was under the idea that a sensor with a bigger pixel size and bigger real-state like the P25 would challenge lenses LESS than the P30 with smaller pixels and less real-state. But I could be wrong
Thanks,
Eduardo

Some considerations, without discussing the quality of the pixels of each back at high ISO:

- the larger sensor will provide wider field of view but will also challenge lenses more,
- the P30+ is designed to offer better high ISO image quality
- the smaller sensor of the P30+ will deliver a bit more DoF all other things being equal,

Whether you intend to stitch or not should clearly impact your selection also.

What you should try to figure out also:
- how is the battery life of both backs in the conditions (temperatures) you typically shoot in?
- are minor interfaces different relevant to you?

Good luck.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Dale Allyn]

I faced this same decision and opted for the P25+. I will move to a P45+ or possibly a P65+ at some point (but the current exposure limit of around a minute for the P65+ is not really long enough for me now).

Both produce excellent images, but there are a few things to consider. The larger sensor of the P25+ provides for wider field of view for a given focal length lens. In landscape this can be important (and is to me), allowing me to use the Mamiya 35mm or other similar lens, without needing to go to the larger and more expensive 28mm for the wide end. And of course, if one needs the really wide coverage, the 28mm gets you even more. I own lenses from 35mm to 210mm and don't want for much. I'd have to have the 28mm if I'd opted for the P30+ ($$).

The P25+ has no micro-lenses and can be used on a technical camera if one so chooses. Lots of options such a Alpa, Cambo, various view cameras, etc.

The P30+ has better noise characteristics at higher ISO, but for me that is not often an issue as I use this kit for mostly landscape, nature, macro and try to use base ISO. Using ISO 200 or 400 is not a problem, but if ISO 800 is your realm the P30+ is better. Still, 50 to 200 is where I "live".

The "fat pixel" P25+ is very "kind" to modestly priced previous generation Mamiya glass. However the P30+ isn't known to be bad in this respect either. As pixels get smaller in the newer, higher resolution backs, one will notice weakness in glass more readily.

If one is not interested in the use of a technical camera (e.g. for using tilt to regain some of the lost DoF), the P30+ will do great as well. The loss of FoV for wides is then the likely measure of importance.

HTH

[Doug Peterson]

Bernard:
I was under the idea that a sensor with a bigger pixel size and bigger real-state like the P25 would challenge lenses LESS than the P30 with smaller pixels and less real-state. But I could be wrong
Thanks,
Eduardo

Both are correct. The larger sensor of the P25 shows more of the outer perimeter of the image circle while the P30 requires more absolute resolution for it's smaller pixels. The most challenging on lenses is the combination of both really large sensor and really small pixel like the 6 micron full-frame P65+.

If you are even remotely considering adding a technical body to your arsenal then you should get the P25+. If not and you can live with the wideness of the 28mm with the 1.3 crop P30+ then go for it.

Doug Peterson
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

[mAlKhamis]

Doug, HTH, Bernard, Eduardo, thank you so much for the enlightening info, i really appreciate it.

with regard to the landscape photography i had a good view now after reading your reply,,

but, Dear HTH Said "The P25+ has no micro-lenses and can be used on a technical camera if one so chooses. Lots of options such a Alpa, Cambo, various view cameras, etc" . does that mean i can attach macro lenses when i use the p30+ ,, because i know that sometimes i will need to shot some flowers and butterflies. does that mean that the p30+ combo will be serve all my needs ?

cheers!

Mohammad

[Dale Allyn]

Doug, HTH, Bernard, Eduardo, thank you so much for the enlightening info, i really appreciate it.

with regard to the landscape photography i had a good view now after reading your reply,,

but, Dear HTH Said "The P25+ has no micro-lenses and can be used on a technical camera if one so chooses. Lots of options such a Alpa, Cambo, various view cameras, etc" . does that mean i can attach macro lenses when i use the p30+ ,, because i know that sometimes i will need to shot some flowers and butterflies. does that mean that the p30+ combo will be serve all my needs ?

cheers!

Mohammad

Mohammad,

I think there is a bit of confusion here. The micro-lenses which are over the sensor of the P30+ makes the back more suitable for subjects such as wedding dresses than the P25+ because the micro-lenses help to control Moire' better. The P25+ will show more Moire' (not desirable) when shooting subjects with certain repeated patterns such as fabrics, some tiled roofs, etc. These micro-lenses on the P30+ also preclude it from working well on a technical camera.

A macro lens will be fine on either choice of backs. I have the Mamiya 120mm Macro "D" lens and it's excellent. It (or other Mamiya macros) will be excellent on the P30+ as well.


One other point: I would warn that if you are planning to do a lot of butterfly shots (of live butterflies) you may find it a bit of a challenge with the MF kit. Not impossible, but a challenge at times. This will be especially true if you're shooting in shaded light where you may need a bit more speed of shutter to stop movement (unless you intend to use flash). Both backs will be excellent for macro work, but butterflies can be on the move and don't always sit still for you. Here, the P30+ might be a better choice because of the better performance at ISO 800, but frankly I'd choose a DSLR for butterflies in most cases.

And by the way, "HTH" was intended to mean "Hope That Helps", rather than indicate my name, but that's okay because it would be a nice name to have too.

Cheers,

Dale

[mAlKhamis]

Mohammad,

I think there is a bit of confusion here. The micro-lenses which are over the sensor of the P30+ makes the back more suitable for subjects such as wedding dresses than the P25+ because the micro-lenses help to control Moire' better. The P25+ will show more Moire' (not desirable) when shooting subjects with certain repeated patterns such as fabrics, some tiled roofs, etc. These micro-lenses on the P30+ also preclude it from working well on a technical camera.

A macro lens will be fine on either choice of backs. I have the Mamiya 120mm Macro "D" lens and it's excellent. It (or other Mamiya macros) will be excellent on the P30+ as well.


One other point: I would warn that if you are planning to do a lot of butterfly shots (of live butterflies) you may find it a bit of a challenge with the MF kit. Not impossible, but a challenge at times. This will be especially true if you're shooting in shaded light where you may need a bit more speed of shutter to stop movement (unless you intend to use flash). Both backs will be excellent for macro work, but butterflies can be on the move and don't always sit still for you. Here, the P30+ might be a better choice because of the better performance at ISO 800, but frankly I'd choose a DSLR for butterflies in most cases.

And by the way, "HTH" was intended to mean "Hope That Helps", rather than indicate my name, but that's okay because it would be a nice name to have too.

Cheers,

Dale

Dearest Dale,

thank you so much,,, you were so nice with me, and i'm sorry for the name mistake, excuse my english, its actually not my mother tongue language,,,

any way the main reason for my BIG   Decision to switch to MF is that i found out that almost if not all of my photography doesn't require fast cameras, what i need is the highest possible quality in all aspects, in my macro photography i actually use an LED lighting system for extreme bugs close-ups, and as you know with flowers i won't need fast cameras as well.  

it was my pleasure to meet you Dale and other MF flocks

cheers and thank you my friend

Mohammad

[Dale Allyn]

... and i'm sorry for the name mistake, excuse my english, its actually not my mother tongue language,,,

Mohammad, your English is fine, and any little name misunderstanding is of no consequence. I should have been more clear.

Good luck with your process. I hope that you enjoy your system, whatever you choose.