A Basic Color Management Question

[Kit-V]

As a newbie to the realm of color management, I certainly could use some basic advice.

I recently color-corrected & repaired several old family photos in Photoshop Elements on my NEC display which has been calibrated & profiled. However, when I open these images on my wife's computer (for storage in her photo library), the colors are over-saturated with extreme color casts.  

What must I do to be assured that the images displayed on other computer screens will (at least closely) resemble the original?

Thank you kindly for any help.

[Mark D Segal]

Firstly, you should insure that you are saving your images with an embedded colour space profile (presumably sRGB if they are for display?) with Black Point Compensation active (checked). Secondly, the other displays on which the images are shown should also be calibrated and profiled.

[digitaldog]

Your wife’s computer must also have a calibrated and profiled display and as importantly, those images need to be viewed in a similar (ICC aware) application or all bets are off. Does she view the images in Elements there?

[Kit-V]

Your wife’s computer must also have a calibrated and profiled display and as importantly, those images need to be viewed in a similar (ICC aware) application or all bets are off. Does she view the images in Elements there?

Point well-taken (regarding calibration/profiling the other display). My dilemma, however, is that I have a SpectraView II puck/software (that is a tweaked Eye One Display II puck) for use on specific wide-gamut NEC displays only. I am reluctant to buy another colorimeter for her computer since color management is not critical on that computer.

Might there be any other alternatives to tweaking the display settings on the other computer such as on-screen settings or using test images? What about using one of the images that was post processed on my NEC display as a test image?

I know what I am asking is a crude substitute for proper calibration.

Thank you for any help you can offer. I appreciate it.

[Mark D Segal]

Point well-taken (regarding calibration/profiling the other display). My dilemma, however, is that I have a SpectraView II puck/software (that is a tweaked Eye One Display II puck) for use on specific wide-gamut NEC displays only. I am reluctant to buy another colorimeter for her computer since color management is not critical on that computer.

Might there be any other alternatives to tweaking the display settings on the other computer such as on-screen settings or using test images? What about using one of the images that was post processed on my NEC display as a test image?

I know what I am asking is a crude substitute for proper calibration.

Thank you for any help you can offer. I appreciate it.

You know, before you worry too much about all that - try this: go to her display and tone-down both the brightness and color saturation (and/or contrast, whatever her particular display allows) using the on-display controls. These things come out of the box with far too much brightness, contrast and saturation for proper photo viewing from the get-go, because manufacturers think this is what most people want, and they're probably right. It just so happens to be crummy for photos. By the time you've "dumbed-down" her display, a good part of the "colour-management" problem may be solved, eventhough it won't be colorimetrically accurate. Then on your computer, fix-up a representative image by making a JPEG in sRGB colour space, and make sure the profile is embedded with Black Point Compensation selected (that little option is really important). Send it to her computer and have a look. These two simple steps may just solve most of your problem.If they don't then you may well have to calibrate and profile her display.

[Kit-V]

Mark & Digitaldog: Thank you for your responses. However, allow me apologize for not having carefully thought out my question beforehand. Let me re-state my question a bit differently. Thanks for being patient with someone who is climbing up the learning curve of color management.

I am using Photoshop Elements to post process my images on a MacBook Pro with an external NEC P221W display. The NEC has been calibrated & profiled using the proprietary SpectraView II puck & software. There appears to be 2 issues with which I could use some help.

Issue #1: First I will process an image with PSE on the NEC display. If I drag the image (while still in PSE) to the MacBook Pro's built-in display, the colors tend to be over-saturated & often with a color cast. Is this a problem of the built-in display not being calibrated?

Issue#2: Although I process my images in PSE, I organize & store them in iPhoto '09. If I open an image that I stored in iPhoto, the colors in the image are over-saturated regardless of whether I view them on the built-in display or the NEC display. My question is: what can I do to assure that images processed in PSE will retain the same color balance (if that is the correct term) in iPhoto?

I assume that iPhoto is a color-managed application. If so, is there some tweaking that I need to do?

And, thanks for your patience & any help you can provide.

[Mark D Segal]

Mark & Digitaldog: Thank you for your responses. However, allow me apologize for not having carefully thought out my question beforehand. Let me re-state my question a bit differently. Thanks for being patient with someone who is climbing up the learning curve of color management.

I am using Photoshop Elements to post process my images on a MacBook Pro with an external NEC P221W display. The NEC has been calibrated & profiled using the proprietary SpectraView II puck & software. There appears to be 2 issues with which I could use some help.

Issue #1: First I will process an image with PSE on the NEC display. If I drag the image (while still in PSE) to the MacBook Pro's built-in display, the colors tend to be over-saturated & often with a color cast. Is this a problem of the built-in display not being calibrated?

Issue#2: Although I process my images in PSE, I organize & store them in iPhoto '09. If I open an image that I stored in iPhoto, the colors in the image are over-saturated regardless of whether I view them on the built-in display or the NEC display. My question is: what can I do to assure that images processed in PSE will retain the same color balance (if that is the correct term) in iPhoto?

I assume that iPhoto is a color-managed application. If so, is there some tweaking that I need to do?

And, thanks for your patience & any help you can provide.

The answer to your first question is most likely "yes" - and as a footnote - laptop displays are notoriously difficult to profile, plus what you see depends on the angle of your head relative to the screen, which changes all the time.

As for the second question, the very little I've seen of iPhoto suggests that you shouldn't expect much from it - it's quite a low-level application. I suggest keeping your life simple by using one application. There's no question in my mind that PSE would be the way to go between the two. As well, with PSE you can buy a very inexpensive add-on called "Elements Plus" which you can buy here: Elements Plus. I bought it and tested it for a course in basic digital image processing I taught at Luminous-Landscape Gallery in November, and it works very well - really expands the scope of the program remarkably.

[Kit-V]

The answer to your first question is most likely "yes" - and as a footnote - laptop displays are notoriously difficult to profile, plus what you see depends on the angle of your head relative to the screen, which changes all the time.

As for the second question, the very little I've seen of iPhoto suggests that you shouldn't expect much from it - it's quite a low-level application. I suggest keeping your life simple by using one application. There's no question in my mind that PSE would be the way to go between the two. As well, with PSE you can buy a very inexpensive add-on called "Elements Plus" which you can buy here: Elements Plus. I bought it and tested it for a course in basic digital image processing I taught at Luminous-Landscape Gallery in November, and it works very well - really expands the scope of the program remarkably.

Mark, thank you for your help. I was able to calibrate my MacBook Pro with the SpectraView II colorimeter & Xrite's i1Match software. However, the problem of color matching between the 2 displays persists (i.e. Problem #1). Might this be a problem of the settings in PSE? Unfortunately, I am not familiar with them.

Regarding my second problem, I agree that ultimately I might be better off by using PSE exclusively. I have used iPhoto simply as an organizer for my images. Since PSE8 for the Mac does not have an Organizer (as in the Windows version), can you suggest where I might organize my images (other than in the PSE application folder)?

Thanks again, Mark.

[Mark D Segal]

If you are using the same colour space for the two displays, PSE should not be the cause of different colour rendition between the two. Yes, a laptop display can be calibrated and profiled, but that is no guarantee the results will be any good. Just keep your head still and flip the lid back and forth a bit. You'll see what I mean. Good profiling should make the same image look about the same on two different stand alone displays. But it's not foolproof especially when it comes to laptops, and you are using different profiling packages and software for each display - I'm guessing this could produce differing results, but that's not what colour management is supposed to be doing to us, so I'm a bit mystified on that one. If you can profile both displays with the same package and see what happens, that may be instructive.

There are separate digital asset management programs available (for example ACDSee) which would allow you to organize your stuff and work it with PSE.

[Paul Sumi]

If you are using the same colour space for the two displays, PSE should not be the cause of different colour rendition between the two. Yes, a laptop display can be calibrated and profiled, but that is no guarantee the results will be any good.

Another thing is that the NEC is a wide gamut monitor while I bet the MacBook Pro is sRGB.  An image in sRGB should look the same on both screens (assuming color managed app).  But an image in, say, ProPhoto color space would probably have visible differences.

Paul

[Kit-V]

If you are using the same colour space for the two displays, PSE should not be the cause of different colour rendition between the two. Yes, a laptop display can be calibrated and profiled, but that is no guarantee the results will be any good. Just keep your head still and flip the lid back and forth a bit. You'll see what I mean. Good profiling should make the same image look about the same on two different stand alone displays. But it's not foolproof especially when it comes to laptops, and you are using different profiling packages and software for each display - I'm guessing this could produce differing results, but that's not what colour management is supposed to be doing to us, so I'm a bit mystified on that one. If you can profile both displays with the same package and see what happens, that may be instructive.

There are separate digital asset management programs available (for example ACDSee) which would allow you to organize your stuff and work it with PSE.

Thank you, Mark!

[Mark D Segal]

Thank you, Mark!

You are welcome. BTW, another very highly regarded browser application for managing image files is this one: Photo Mechanic

[Kit-V]

I have decided to resolve my issue by simplifying my workflow.  I can store my images in sub-folders in my User folder. Using Adobe Bridge, I can view & organize my images, as well as interface with Photoshop Elements & the Raw Converter. In doing so, I can avoid using a separate app (like iPhoto).

[Studio2bn]

Question about Color Management decisions ....


Firstly....I am amazed at what a wealth of knowledge all you folks are sharing with us Newbies and YES I AM A NEWBIE !!!......Thanks.....And Please let me know if I have posted this in the wrong forum/area.......

Here are some of things that I question...and I run a PC

I have an NEC 2690WUXI with SVII......The SVII does calibrated my monitor beautifully....but here is where I want to go....I am now wanting to calibrate my Epson 9800/Media ICC Profiles....scanner and hopefully my camera with my 2690WUXI....So, that I can get the "Best" color management/digital workflow I can possibly get out of my equipment......Because I have been talking to several artist about doing some major reproduction work for them, but I don't feel like I have arrived as yet to the point of being able to reproduce at the quality level where I want to be and want my equipment to be..ie having to use canned ICC Profiles for paper and canvas media ....Though some are pretty good, some are not so good .....I have been looking at the X-Rite i1Xtreme system.....(Finally a question !!! ).....Will I have "Any" problems in using the i1Xtreme with my 2690WUXI considering that I have the SVII installed and the NEC does have internal LUTS ? Will using the i1Xtreme function with the internal LUTS or will it be going into make any changes in my card ? And is there a possiblity of any other unforseen problems in using the i1Xtreme ?

All your input would be very much appreciated.....I just don't want to put out the money for such a wonderful Color Management/Calibration system only to find out that I did not think of or consider everything......


Thanks for all your time and help.....

Studio2bn
Studio2bn@cox.net